Really Need Help Now

[Guest donny206]

People may be getting pissed of with this now buttttttttttttt

 

I have still not found a suitable solution to power my 206 turbo creation.

 

It has the multiplex wiring system!

 

I have looked in to emerald and dont think that will do the job, at the moment im getting someone to look into if the megasquirt will do other then that is something like an omex 600 but i do not have endless amounts of money!

 

So any last ideas as my engine is now ready!

[TEKNOPUG 3]

There must be a few companies that offer a 206 turbo conversion? Why don't you contact them as a "prospective buyer" and ask what solutions they use to get round the multiplex issue?

[Guest donny206]

The companies that do this have not had the best of feed backs and then often just use such things as mf2's which is not the best way to look after your engine and i have spent ££££'s on the rebulid and everything needed for the conversion so need something better like an omex of megasquirt if the megasquirt can handle it!

[TEKNOPUG 3]

They'll all be able to run your engine, no problems. What you're asking though is whether they can be incorporated into the 206 multiplex wiring system. I doubt very much whether anyone can answer this who hasn't already attempted it. You could try contacting Moex, Haltech directly and asking them. I'm sure they'll say "yes, in theory it can be done" but what you really need is an expert with intimate knowledge of the 206 multiplex system.

[Guest donny206]

Who is that company?

 

Yer i really need some one who knows my cars system but im finding it very difficult to find any one!

[Mattsav 1]

The Mutiplex systems are a bloody nightmare.

KMS will run the engine but the problem is that the ECU is linked to everything else. You have to convince the ECU everything is as it expect to be or you'll get warning lights everywhere.

 

Try Simon at TMS or John at GMC.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Who is that company?

 

Yer i really need some one who knows my cars system but im finding it very difficult to find any one!

 

Have you tried Ecosse? They offer a conversion service and they aren't known to cut costs when it comes to work (judging by their prices).

 

Alternatively, contact every Engine Management company you can find and ask them whether they can build a solution for you. Or trawl the net for other turbo'd 206's.

 

I'm betting that you'll have to get a bespoke system which will cost bucks!

Edited January 11, 2006 by TEKNOPUG

[DrSeuss 0]

I think the only plausible answer is. NO after market ecu will integrate with your multiplexed 206 wiring loom. Therefore the options you are left with, are as follows. Piggy backing an ecu onto your engine, or doing away with multiplex.

 

Since you are understandably keen to avoid doing away with multiplex. I'd look for the best solution for piggybacking. In my opinion this would be Megasquirt (i'm slightly biassed) because it has the most flexibility built into the software. Where the flexibility will come into play will be determined by the person who actually maps it.

 

Omex, Emerald, Haltech and Motec are primarily designed to replace ecu's in race cars, where extraneous wiring has been removed. And simplicity is required.

 

Since no one is remapping the 206 ecu yet, i'd piggyback an ecu in. This solution may not be perfect. But its a damn site better then using a 5th injector controller.

 

Part of my last job was to work with canbus (multiplex systems) they're fiddly at the best of times! Look into what porsche, mercedes, bmw remappers do, most likely they remap the standard ecu or use a custom pigyback ecu.

[Guest donny206]

after readig into most thing i am also thinking the megasquirt will be one of the best options! Ill try a few people to ask! know any good mappers?

[TEKNOPUG 3]

I was going to suggested getting the original ecu remapped. Is it a definite no-go?

[Guest donny206]

i beieve i can be done if you can find someone to do it but i cant find anyone that can

[DrSeuss 0]

It seems (from reading donny's posts on the psooc) no one is remapping the multiplex ecu's.

 

There are no mappers for megasquirt, it is not just a cheap ecu, you are meant to take pride in constructing it and mapping it yourself. No mean feat i agree, but Mad Proffessor is mapping his 1.9TT engine and thats running in the region of 230hp. So far it would seem he's having a reasonable degree of success.

 

I'm doing a group buy of megasquirts (hence biassed). So would be happy to try and answer any questions you might have about its functionality. Look in the group buys and discounts section for more information. It certainly seems roughly equal to KMS in terms of capability (with the exception of coil on plug ignition, not something you need to worry about)

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

DP engineering has just done a 206 1.4 8V Twin Turbo with Compressor. Amazing piece of machinery. Two KKK K03 turbo's, one Eaton M45 compressor and VEMS 3.3 to control it all. 200bhp ++

 

 

 

They also did a single turbo 1.6-16V:

 

 

[TEKNOPUG 3]

That's just silly! Why not just use a bigger lump in the first place??

[Guest donny206]

yes i did buy alot of parts from them but they use the fifth injector system and i have considered this but am not convinced its the best option!??

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

That's just silly! Why not just use a bigger lump in the first place??

 

The guy who had it build by them wanted something special according to Pieter.

 

 

yes i did buy alot of parts from them but they use the fifth injector system and i have considered this but am not convinced its the best option!??

 

You can use 4 bigger injectors as well. No problem. So when you're working with VEMS/MS/Emerald there's no need to use 5th injector.

[Guest donny206]

So on that theory the megasquirt would be a good option?

[DrSeuss 0]

The only thing that would bother me is the crank sensor. You'll have to retain the current one, so you'll either require installation of a second one (drilling/tapping the gearbox bellhousing). Once you've done that it should be easy to run megasquirt. Or any other management system really. You'll have loads of fault codes. And will be running 2 engine management systems side by side, but its certainly possible.

[Dom9 2]

You can use 4 bigger injectors as well. No problem. So when you're working with VEMS/MS/Emerald there's no need to use 5th injector.

 

Which raises another question... Depending on boost, couldn't the ECU 'cope' with a turbo without the need for re-mapping, if it has the ability to adjust it's fueling? And, if there isn't enough capacity in the injectors, couldn't you use slightly larger ones and let the ECU learn the settings for those, as long as you can get the engine running?

 

Some ECU's won't stray past a set % change in the settings, so if you go beyond these, you are f*cked and will want an aftermarket ECU, but if you are determined to do it, then do all the mechanical construction and get the thing built first, then try running it on the original ECU and see what happens... If it doesn't work and you don't rag the engine too hard (blow it up) then you can look at piggy-backing!

[DrSeuss 0]

After reading through all your posts, I really think its worth getting your ecu mapped proffessionally if you don't feel capable yourself.

 

You've undertaken a very large project and i don't want to see it go wrong for you (with expensive consequences). If you don't feel able to do stuff, i'd certainly ask for proffessional help. And get your engine mapped by someone competent to do the job.

[Guest donny206]

yes i will def be getting some one else to do it, the actual bulding of the engine etc is now done this is y i need something sorted asap the engine is just on its way back to me!

 

Arr i really do not no the best option!

[DrSeuss 0]

Which raises another question... Depending on boost, couldn't the ECU 'cope' with a turbo without the need for re-mapping, if it has the ability to adjust it's fueling? And, if there isn't enough capacity in the injectors, couldn't you use slightly larger ones and let the ECU learn the settings for those, as long as you can get the engine running?

 

Some ECU's won't stray past a set % change in the settings, so if you go beyond these, you are f*cked and will want an aftermarket ECU, but if you are determined to do it, then do all the mechanical construction and get the thing built first, then try running it on the original ECU and see what happens... If it doesn't work and you don't rag the engine too hard (blow it up) then you can look at piggy-backing!

 

Dude, i'd not suggest anything like that on a public forum. Its just plain stupid to boost an engine mapped for n/a it WILL blow up, its just a matter of how long it takes......

[Dom9 2]

LOL!

 

How many engines do you think there are out there running turbo's with the original ECU, re-mapped or otherwise? Plenty!

 

I think the Lotus/Rover MEMS unit can adjust fuelling and ignition timing by up to 10%... I guess it reads lambda values and adjusts accordingly! I would be HIGHLY impressed if anyone could fit all the turbo equipment properly, start it up on standard management and blow it up at idle or even low rpm...

 

What will a turbo boost at 1000-2000rpm? Cylinder pressures would probably be similar to those crazy, crazy guys who keep skimming their heads for high CR and using the standard management! Oh, what fools they are!

 

No bell end, if the engine isn't hot (which you can monitor, plus it won't get hot for a while) and you aren't going to start trying to rag the thing round the local estate, then I (IMVVVHO) think you will be more than fine at idle and a fair few rpm above as you are probably only boosting at a couple of psi! I think you will get some fairly obvious signs if you are not and won't be generating the heat or anything to damage any engine components... You will notice and get the engine off a long time before that happens!

 

It all depends on what the ECU can do, how much boost you are going to run etc etc... At least it will probably start and let you know whether you have all the mechanical things correct!

 

The only thing I would be ashamed of writing on a public forum is that all inlet manifolds fit all engines!

Edited January 11, 2006 by Dom9

[DrSeuss 0]

yes i will def be getting some one else to do it, the actual bulding of the engine etc is now done this is y i need something sorted asap the engine is just on its way back to me!

 

Arr i really do not no the best option!

 

Ring up a few ecu mappers. Find someone who's willing to discuss the options with you. If you find someone who can explain it to you in terms you understand. Have a piece of paper ready and ask them what they'd choose and why? Most ecu mappers will have a favoured ecu, but can map almost anything.

 

Also try contacting big_green_p (phil) on the psooc, he's a really diamond geezer and though he has more experience of mapping engines on throttle bodies will take the time to talk through your options with you.

 

Tell him Sam (DrSeuss) says hi and that you should go for a megasquirt and ask him his opinion. I should have his mobile somewhere. He'll tell you to go for an omex 500, because he likes mapping omex.

[Guest donny206]

ok mate ill give him a shout! I have tried a few ppl on this and alot say use omex £1600 plus which is alot really, ill give a few more a try!