Kamel6k 1 Posted January 8, 2006 Well, i've 'withdrewed'(don't know if it is the right term...) 0.65º my 205 1.6 gti left wishbone, so i have to change it. My question is, should i upgrade to 309 one's, even with the original suspension and 14'' whells. Do i have to change the transmissons to? Will it be a good upgrade or should i stay with the original 205 ones? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonmurgie 2 Posted January 8, 2006 You would also need the 309 driveshafts and as you've got a 1.6 I believe you would also need the 309 hubs... worth it though You don't need to change the gearbox... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j_turnell 134 3 Cars Posted January 8, 2006 Also your tracking would need to be adjusted by quite a lot to compensate for the wider track, works out around 10mm per side, as otherwise your wheels will be toeing out shed loads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonmurgie 2 Posted January 8, 2006 Needless to say, you mess about with suspension etc. you should always get the tracking checked again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam 4 Posted January 9, 2006 James & Jon, Did it make a noticable positive difference to the handling? I'm going to be doing it shortly to mine. Sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonmurgie 2 Posted January 9, 2006 Well I was running Eccentric top mounts anyhow so it just gave me even more camber, or at least allowed me to dial in some castor while still keeping a nice level of camber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butler 0 Posted January 9, 2006 Did it make a noticable positive difference to the handling? I'm going to be doing it shortly to mine. Sam It does. Definitely more grip, but you only notice it when pushing hard. I guess techically you have less grip until you load up the suspension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,000 Posted January 9, 2006 Did it make a noticable positive difference to the handling? I'm going to be doing it shortly to mine. It's a worthwhile modification in my opinion (got it on my 205 Mi16), and I'm shortly going to be doing it to my 1.6. You get more grip in corners and it seems to even out front tyre wear (I always wear the outer edge of the tyre away on a 205 setup, but evenly on 309). The only real downside I've found is that it tramlines a bit more on roads with lorry ruts, but that's a small price to pay IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_W 3 1 Cars Posted January 9, 2006 I wouldn't recommend it as a "must-have" for a road car for the reasons anthony mentioned (tramlining etc). And quite a lot of work for something that might not be of noticeable benefit (ie 2 wishbones, shafts, hubs etc) and the work to fit it all. Ive only noticed marginally better tyre wear at trackdays (less shoulder wear), but on the road it feels quite nervous to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alastairh 47 Posted January 9, 2006 Worth while though if oyur original wish bones and shafts are shafted though Look forward to trying them out on my shed some time soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam 4 Posted January 9, 2006 I need to get XU driveshafts anyway (BE4R box conversion) and a friend has some 309 wishbones spare (for sale) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wes 86 1 Cars Posted January 9, 2006 so are all 309 hubs the same? or does it depend on the model, gti etc? im asking cause a mate has just written off his 309, its not a gti think its an xs or xt or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,000 Posted January 9, 2006 so are all 309 hubs the same? or does it depend on the model, gti etc? im asking cause a mate has just written off his 309, its not a gti think its an xs or xt or something like that. All of the XU/XUD engine ones are the same AFAIK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted January 16, 2006 I have been given some 309 GRD driveshafts. Are they the same as 309 GTi shafts. As i have the 309 Wishbones and am doing the conversion will they reach the hub?? Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 242 3 Cars Posted January 16, 2006 Yes, all 309 driveshafts are the same length & most have the same part number for original new ones (diesel & Gti) but different when reconditioned. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veloce200 3 Posted January 16, 2006 (edited) I would agree its a good mod. I've not found any tramlining effect as the balljoint is moved out keeping the scrub radius in same position (a little negative scrub). If different offset wheels or spacers are used then tramlining and wheel fight will occur. By widening the front track weight transfer on this axle is reduced. You get more front end grip and the rear works harder. Agree with Jon the best benefit is being able to set Eccentric top mounts for full castor as the wishbone gives you all the static camber you need. I found until I put the 309 wbones in, the extra rear grip from the solid mounts had made the car tend to understeer. Now I'm not recommending this but I'm still using 1.9 driveshafts. A Pug Specialist up North said you can get away with them as long as you avoid full lock full power moves. They haven't fallen out yet but when budget permits I will probably get the 309 shafts! Edited January 16, 2006 by veloce200 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tom_m 0 Posted January 16, 2006 Now I'm not recommending this but I'm still using 1.9 driveshafts. A Pug Specialist up North said you can get away with them as long as you avoid full lock full power moves. They haven't fallen out yet but when budget permits I will probably get the 309 shafts! i ran 309 'bones and 205 shafts for a year with no problem what-so-ever; i don't know what all the fuss is about! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,000 Posted January 16, 2006 i ran 309 'bones and 205 shafts for a year with no problem what-so-ever; i don't know what all the fuss is about! It's one of those things that seems to be a bit borderline, and some people have problems and others are fine. Whether it's a tolerance issue on different driveshafts, or whether it's more to do with engine/gearbox position and the suspension height/droop I don't know - there has been enough people that have had driveshaft CV's pop out on full lock though that running 205 'shafts and 309 wishbones is never something I'd recommend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neil88 0 Posted January 16, 2006 Are the 309 diesel hubs the same as the 309 gti? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,000 Posted January 16, 2006 Are the 309 diesel hubs the same as the 309 gti? I answered that question just a few posts above - please atleast have the decency to read through a thread and the posts people have taken the time to write before asking the same question! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
