Oil Pump Differences And Pressure Figures Required.....

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Before we start, I have searched this topic but as usual the search facility on here is absolute s*ite.

 

Could someone be so kind as to post the exact oil pressure figures of both XU9J4 (1905cc alloy block mi) and XU10J4 (2.0 solid block mi) when at idle and under load once up to tempreature please?

 

Secondly, what are the differences between the 2 oil pumps in each engine?? I am running a solid block but with the earlier XU9J4 pump, chain and crank sprokett......... Does the later equipment generate more pressure as I know they have a different number of teeth on the crank sprokett..... Just wondering if I have the right setup in my new engine and whether I should go back to the XU10J4 equipment?? I didnt choose to use the XU9j4 gear.....

 

Thanks for any input guys and merry christmas to you all!!!

 

Maxi

Edited December 25, 2005 by maxi

[Anthony 1,000]

For what it's worth, 405 Haynes lists the minimum oil pressure at 90 degrees oil temperature as:

 

4.1 bar @ 4000rpm for XU9

5.2 bar @ 4000rpm for XU10

 

Somewhere around I've got some other figures as well from proper Peugeot spec sheets, but I'd need to dig them out.

 

I also have both an XU9 and XU10 (both 8v and 16v) oil pumps and crank sprockets out in the garage and can check the number of teeth on them tomorrow if you need?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

For what it's worth, 405 Haynes lists the minimum oil pressure at 90 degrees oil temperature as:

 

4.1 bar @ 4000rpm for XU9

5.2 bar @ 4000rpm for XU10

 

Somewhere around I've got some other figures as well from proper Peugeot spec sheets, but I'd need to dig them out.

 

I also have both an XU9 and XU10 (both 8v and 16v) oil pumps and crank sprockets out in the garage and can check the number of teeth on them tomorrow if you need?

 

 

Anthony, as per usual you are a saviour. I think you might have solved a very large problem. Thanks for responding to my PM......

 

So basically an S16 runs more pressure at 4000RPM than a 1.9 mi?

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,000]

So basically an S16 runs more pressure at 4000RPM than a 1.9 mi?

Looks that way, although a Group A oil pump spring (or a few washers) would boost an XU9 oil pump to beyond that of an XU10 one - my experience of XU9's with the Group A spring is around 7.5 bar with cold oil, and 5.5 bar with the oil upto temperature (taking those figures with a pinch of salt as they're from the dash gauge rather than anything calibrated)

[Ryan 99]

AFAIK the spring tension in the pump will determine the max pressure. The number of teeth on the pulley will affect how quickly oil pressure builds up in relation to revs (fewer teeth = higher pressure at lower revs), plus it will also affact the flow rate of the oil too.

Edited December 25, 2005 by RyanMoore

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Just having a look on the pug parts CD now, looks like I could be very busy tomorrow!

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,000]

Right, managed to locate my indepth techincal information on the XU9J4 engine - this is probably a bit more involved than you need, but here goes all the oil related info from it (or what I can translate from French for you anyways):

 

Maximum Oil Temperature:

Intermittent = 150 degrees C

Continuous = 140 degrees C

 

Oil Pump flow rate:

1500rpm = 8.2 litres/minute

1800rpm = 9.9 litres/minute

2500rpm = 11.6 litres/minute

3000rpm = 12.1 litres/minute

3600rpm = 12.5 litres/minute

4000rpm = 13.2 litres/minute

4500rpm = 13.8 litres/minute

5000rpm = 14.4 litres/minute

6500rpm = 16.1 litres/minute

 

Oil pressure with 120 degree C oil temperature:

1000rpm = 1.8 bar (180kpa)

6500rpm = 5.5 bar (550kpa)

 

Low oil pressure warning light activated at 0.8 bar

 

Oil filter (I think it says) bypassed at 1.2 bar

 

Oil type = 10W40

Oil quantity = 5.3 litres

Oil change interval = 10000km (approximately 6000 miles)

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Right, managed to locate my indepth techincal information on the XU9J4 engine - this is probably a bit more involved than you need, but here goes all the oil related info from it (or what I can translate from French for you anyways):

 

Maximum Oil Temperature:

Intermittent = 150 degrees C

Continuous = 140 degrees C

 

Oil Pump flow rate:

1500rpm = 8.2 litres/minute

1800rpm = 9.9 litres/minute

2500rpm = 11.6 litres/minute

3000rpm = 12.1 litres/minute

3600rpm = 12.5 litres/minute

4000rpm = 13.2 litres/minute

4500rpm = 13.8 litres/minute

5000rpm = 14.4 litres/minute

6500rpm = 16.1 litres/minute

 

Oil pressure with 120 degree C oil temperature:

1000rpm = 1.8 bar (180kpa)

6500rpm = 5.5 bar (550kpa)

 

Low oil pressure warning light activated at 0.8 bar

 

Oil filter (I think it says) bypassed at 1.2 bar

 

Oil type = 10W40

Oil quantity = 5.3 litres

Oil change interval = 10000km (approximately 6000 miles)

 

 

Lovely!! Any in depth info on the 2.0 XU10J4 equipment for comparison??

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,000]

AFAIK the spring tension in the pump will determine the max pressure. The number of teeth on the pulley will affect how quickly oil pressure builds up in relation to revs (fewer teeth = higher pressure at lower revs), plus it will also affact the flow rate of the oil too.

Yes, that's correct.

 

The pressure-relief spring is what controls the maximum pressure of the oil pump, and usually the pump is turning over fast enough by around 3000rpm that excess pressure is being dumped by the oil pressure spring.

 

You can change the gearing on the oil pump to affect flow and how fast it'll reach maximum pressure, but you need to be a little careful, as I'd imagine that spinning the oil pump too fast will badly reduce its efficiency and protentially cause cavitation (sp?). Not only that, but spinning the pump faster than required will only reduce power output as it'll take more and more engine power to spin the oil pump.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Ive just been on the parts CD and everything is different right down to the pressure spring inside the 2 pumps.... What is interesting is that the XU10J4TE (T16) runs a different pump again... wonder if it is higher pressure to cope with the turbo demands???

 

Anyway it appears I have completely the wrong setup... looks like engine out.

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,000]

Lovely!! Any in depth info on the 2.0 XU10J4 equipment for comparison??

Still looking....

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Check this post out.. I took some pictures of T16/XU11D pump and XU10J4 pump.

XU10J4 and XU9J4 pumps seem to be the same, but the XU10 have more teeth on the crank gear so it will spin up faster.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...hl=oil,and,pump

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Check this post out.. I took some pictures of T16/XU11D pump and XU10J4 pump.

XU10J4 and XU9J4 pumps seem to be the same, but the XU10 have more teeth on the crank gear so it will spin up faster.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...hl=oil,and,pump

 

 

Xu10J4 and XU9J4 pumps are very different internally mate, pressure relief spring for a start. Also have different part numbers....

 

Maxi

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Xu10J4 and XU9J4 pumps are very different internally mate, pressure relief spring for a start. Also have different part numbers....

 

Maxi

 

I know there's a difference, but I don't think it's that important.

The XU10 seem to spit the oil back into the sump after it's passed through the reliefvalve, but if I remember correct, in the XU9 pump the oil will be guided straight back to the pump-gears. I won't say they're very different internally, the pump-gears are the same diameter and have the same number of teeth.. At least on the XU10J4R and XU9J4 pumps I've been looking at.

 

What's the differences between the springs then?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I know there's a difference, but I don't think it's that important.

The XU10 seem to spit the oil back into the sump after it's passed through the reliefvalve, but if I remember correct, in the XU9 pump the oil will be guided straight back to the pump-gears. I won't say they're very different internally, the pump-gears are the same diameter and have the same number of teeth.. At least on the XU10J4R and XU9J4 pumps I've been looking at.

 

What's the differences between the springs then?

 

 

Havent got a clue mate! different tension and number of coils??? must cut off at a different pressure to the XU9 one?? I really dont know, this is why I dont build engines, its all above me. I lay bricks for a living!

 

Maxi

[petert 554]

Xu10J4 and XU9J4 pumps are very different internally mate, pressure relief spring for a start. Also have different part numbers....

 

Have you pulled the two apart? I've mixed and matched gears successfully and played with the springs and pistons. The 2L spring is a tad stiffer (slightly larger wire diameter), which would explain the differeing pressure rates. As Black_Mi16 said, the 2L pump spins faster thanks to a larger crank sprocket. It also has a guard (to reduce frothing) which can't be fitted to the 1.9L pump. Other than that though, they're identical.

 

If you were rebuilding a 1.9L engine, you'd be mad not to buy a 2L pump, chain, crank sprocket and guard.

Edited December 27, 2005 by petert

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Have you pulled the two apart? I've mixed and matched gears successfully and played with the springs and pistons. The 2L spring is a tad stiffer (slightly larger wire diameter), which would explain the differeing pressure rates. As Black_Mi16 said, the 2L pump spins faster thanks to a larger crank sprocket. It also has a guard (to reduce frothing) which can't be fitted to the 1.9L pump. Other than that though, they're identical.

 

If you were rebuilding a 1.9L engine, you'd be mad not to buy a 2L pump, chain, crank sprocket and guard.

 

 

This is the problem, im using a 1.9 pump, sprockett and chain in my new engine.... Just been down the main dealer to order a new pump and they are bastard shut, bloody bank holidays!!!!

 

Maxi

Edited December 27, 2005 by maxi

[DrSeuss 0]

main dealer costs about 170 quid for an oil pump!

 

Partco do an original one for 110.

 

Not cheap either way.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

main dealer costs about 170 quid for an oil pump!

 

Partco do an original one for 110.

 

Not cheap either way.

 

 

Dont know where you get your information from Sam...???

 

A brand new oil pump for an S16 from pug is £90 all in. Ordered a new chain and tensioner plate too.... Wont be here until new year as Peugeot in France is shutdown until then.

 

Looks like the main dealer is cheaper than Partco??

 

Maxi

Edited December 28, 2005 by maxi

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Got the new bits today.....

 

Brand new oil pump complete

New oil pump drive train

New tensioner plate

 

All of which are for an XU10J4- 2.0S16/Mi16

 

£130incVAT.

 

Just goes to show the main dealer isnt always that expensive!!!

 

Maxi

[DrSeuss 0]

It was a while ago. I actually wanted one for my 1.6 gti when i thought it was faulty. But pricing up one from the dealer came to about 170 quid!

[Mandic 0]

Same here, I'm afraid.

 

Dealer wanted £150 for pump only...

 

Cheers

 

Ziga