Rolling Roads

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

Can anyone recommend a reputable engine mapper in Sheffield and the surrounding area, say within an 1hrs drive, who can map Omex, DTA, Emerald etc etc

Someone who has Peugeot experience would be nice.

 

Any suggestions chaps

 

Chris

[blackscooby 0]

Had my Pug on DTA mapped at Nobles in Chesterfield. Not that far away from you.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I would have said Nobles too. Alternatively Total Motorsport Solutions in Leeds have done a few race Peugeots I believe

[Guest Butch]

Does anyone know of any in the norwich area?

[PumaRacing 1]

Getting engines set up can be a very hit and miss affair. It's worth driving a bit further than you ideally wanted to make sure it's done well. I get a lot of feedback from customers about their RR experiences including places you've already had suggested. Still trying to work out how one big valve head customer took his rally prepped 205 in for set up recently with the ecu rev limiter already removed the previous season, wasn't allowed to watch the set up and came away with a std rev limited ecu that stopped him doing anything worthwhile in his next event. The car coughing and pinking when it wasn't bouncing off the rev limiter didn't help much either.

 

Best in the mid north to date is Mikeanics in Congleton. 01260-297115. Very experienced with Pugs, won't stiff you for bits you don't really need, lets you watch and explains exactly what he's doing and why and half the price of most places. £50 an hour for the first hour and £25 an hour thereafter. Down here you can pay two or three times that. Get in quick before he realises how much he could put his prices up. Mention I sent you too if you like.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Actually I will second Mikeanics too as I have only ever heard exceptional things about him! He has set up Galv's Mi16 205 and that runs sweet as a nut.

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

Thanks for all you suggestions, I have actually been to Mike in Congleton, and have to agree he is top on my list at the moment.

However, I know he specialises in Lumenition ECU mapping, think I'm going for DTA and don't know if he can map DTA, does anyone know ?

 

I have had very mixed reviews from Nobles, hit and miss !

 

The main Webber agent is just round the corner, JP Auto something, has anyone any views good / bad?

 

Chris

[rescue dude 0]

think I'm going for DTA and don't know if he can map DTA, does anyone know ?

 

 

Chris

 

Why don't you ask DTA themselves? They're in Manchester and Alan the boss is a nice chap.

[PumaRacing 1]

If you can map one ecu you can map them all. It's only values in a table. Ain't rocket science. Might be more sensible to ask him rather than us though.

[petert 550]

If you can map one ecu you can map them all. It's only values in a table. Ain't rocket science.

 

True. But if they don't know the "hot keys" to move values and and down quickly, and move between ranges quickly, you pay for their software training session.

[Mattsav 1]

Another vote for Mikeanics.

 

He's also used KMS as well

[TT205 42]

You have probably heard Wayne Schofield (Chipwizards) mentioned - I've just used him and very happy, Pugtorque used him too - he's just off ?Junc 21 on M62 - Milnrow

 

He can definately map DTA

 

He used to go all round the country but now has his own unit

 

Dave

[Dream Weaver 2]

Also had Wayne recommended to me by my local Motorsport tuning place.

 

I may give Mikeanics a whirl.

[charlie_sav 0]

Mikeanics is £50 for the first hour and £30 for every hour after, plus vat.

 

mike is very good, had my 106 mapped tweaked there with my KMS ecu, he started off putting his lambda sensor as he's used to seeing labmda values instead of airfuel ratios. we went up the road for a few miles with him just checking my map and seeing what the fueling was doing, then back to the rolling road for abit of time playing with the ignition.

 

i've used him for some years now had had quite afew different cars on his rollers and they do seem accurate.

A+ from me !!

[XLR8 0]

Best in the mid north to date is Mikeanics in Congleton. 01260-297115. Very experienced with Pugs, won't stiff you for bits you don't really need, lets you watch and explains exactly what he's doing and why and half the price of most places. £50 an hour for the first hour and £25 an hour thereafter. Down here you can pay two or three times that. Get in quick before he realises how much he could put his prices up. Mention I sent you too if you like.

 

Have to disagree Dave, I went there and was a little un-impressed.

My engine has one of your BVH with twin 45's & I really didnt feel the rolling road session did it much justice...

After speaking to yourself after the session that I wasnt too happy with the output (poor low & mid range- albeit a great top end) you recomended me to do a few changes (smaller chokes & different jet sizes etc) itnow performes much better & im sure it has gained the extra 10bhp which you predicted it should have.

 

Also mikeanics did not like to be watched while he worked (I was 'politly' asked if I has something else I could do while he did it' - A little un-nerving i dare say). And his RR only gives a reading of 'flywheel' BHP, which from reading your articles on 'RR flywheel figures' made me further not too impressed either

 

On a good point tho the price (£150) was a fair price for the 2-3 hours work he did.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Got a copy of your graph....Be interesting to see how Puma's BVH performs on a set of rolers Mr Baker approves...

Edited January 3, 2006 by Robsbc

[smckeown 1]

Have to disagree Dave, I went there and was a little un-impressed.

My engine has one of your BVH with twin 45's & I really didnt feel the rolling road session did it much justice...

After speaking to yourself after the session that I wasnt too happy with the output (poor low & mid range- albeit a great top end) you recomended me to do a few changes (smaller chokes & different jet sizes etc) itnow performes much better & im sure it has gained the extra 10bhp which you predicted it should have.

 

Also mikeanics did not like to be watched while he worked (I was 'politly' asked if I has something else I could do while he did it' - A little un-nerving i dare say). And his RR only gives a reading of 'flywheel' BHP, which from reading your articles on 'RR flywheel figures' made me further not too impressed either

 

On a good point tho the price (£150) was a fair price for the 2-3 hours work he did.

 

I suppose the issue could be that on the basis he seems to cpecialist in RRing cars with TBs he may not have had the parts in for carbs ?

 

I was lining up him for my RR but I might have to think twice now, or do some more research

[Toddman 0]

You have probably heard Wayne Schofield (Chipwizards) mentioned - I've just used him and very happy, Pugtorque used him too - he's just off ?Junc 21 on M62 - Milnrow

 

He can definately map DTA

 

He used to go all round the country but now has his own unit

 

Dave

 

Good to hear Wayne has his own premises now - Does anyone have details for them?

I have only heard good things about him and am looking at getting my car sorted .

 

Cheers

Luke

[TT205 42]

It's an absolute doddle to find, just a minute off the M62 Milnrow motorway junction

 

His number is 07977004476 - if he's in the dyno room he can't hear it so ring at hourly intervals till you get him!

[Toddman 0]

Thanks mate

[XLR8 0]

Got a copy of your graph....Be interesting to see how Puma's BVH performs on a set of rolers Mr Baker approves...

 

In fairness the power output does not reflect the potential of the head, since it has been re-tuned to dave's reccomendation it now pulls alot better through the rev range.

But just for the record, here are the figures it got on the day:

 

Mikeanics:

Before tuning (omex ecu std map & bolt on carb setup + not set cam timing).

*note* figures are 'flywheel figures'

power: 133.5 bhp@ 6600rpm

torque:109 lb ft @ 5558 rpm

After:

Power 143.1

torque: 117.3

 

and also on the same day i got a second 'power run' done at 're performance', this showed:

Max power as 112BHP (wheel figure) at 7200rpm.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

In fairness the power output does not reflect the potential of the head, since it has been re-tuned to dave's reccomendation it now pulls alot better through the rev range.

But just for the record, here are the figures it got on the day:

 

Mikeanics:

Before tuning (omex ecu std map & bolt on carb setup + not set cam timing).

*note* figures are 'flywheel figures'

power: 133.5 bhp@ 6600rpm

torque:109 lb ft @ 5558 rpm

After:

Power 143.1

torque: 117.3

 

and also on the same day i got a second 'power run' done at 're performance', this showed:

Max power as 112BHP (wheel figure) at 7200rpm.

 

112 is a around 129BHP usind DB's 15% for flywheel figures....

 

Torque looks low even with that extra 10BHP what do you expect the torque to be?

[PumaRacing 1]

Have to disagree Dave, I went there and was a little un-impressed.

My engine has one of your BVH with twin 45's & I really didnt feel the rolling road session did it much justice...

After speaking to yourself after the session that I wasnt too happy with the output (poor low & mid range- albeit a great top end) you recomended me to do a few changes (smaller chokes & different jet sizes etc) itnow performes much better & im sure it has gained the extra 10bhp which you predicted it should have.

 

Also mikeanics did not like to be watched while he worked (I was 'politly' asked if I has something else I could do while he did it' - A little un-nerving i dare say). And his RR only gives a reading of 'flywheel' BHP, which from reading your articles on 'RR flywheel figures' made me further not too impressed either

 

On a good point tho the price (£150) was a fair price for the 2-3 hours work he did.

 

Hi Jonathan. Glad to hear you've got the carbs sorted now. However to be fair to Mikeanics the above is not quite the full story if memory serves. Your carbs came off a 1.9 Mi16 and had 37mm chokes in them. Before the BV head was even fitted I said those were far too big for a 1.6 eight valve engine and suggested 33mm ones would be ample for the 150 bhp which was the most we were hoping for. Given that chokes are usually only available in even sizes these days that meant 32mm ones to favour mid range torque and 34mm ones for best top end. You got 34mm ones and fitted them but of course with the jets set for 37mm ones it didn't run well. You refitted the 37mm ones as a stop gap measure but didn't put the 34mm ones back in before going to the rollers and forgot to take them with you.

 

Not surprising it didn't have good power or pull well low down with chokes 20% too big for the engine. Big chokes kill low rpm power but also hurt top end too. Now whether Mike had every size of Dellorto choke in stock and could have fitted another set of smaller ones on the day I couldn't say. They aren't a common carb these days.

 

His rollers initially measure wheel bhp as do they all but he prints out the figure with coast down losses added as that's what most people ask for. The wheel figures are there if you really want them although it's a bit more of a struggle to get them from him than I would like.

 

112 is a around 129BHP usind DB's 15% for flywheel figures....

 

Torque looks low even with that extra 10BHP what do you expect the torque to be?

 

(112 + 10 bhp) / 0.9 = 136 bhp using my full equation. Comparing two different rollers is pointless though and I have no idea how the RE ones read. I know Mikeanics ones seem fairly honest from the various figures I've seen from them. Torque looks fine at 74 ft lbs / litre for an eight valve engine with a mild cam. You see it's a 1580cc 1.6 not a 1.9 but then you never miss the chance to have a little dig do you Rob? It's starting to get childish and tiresome. Quite what your problem is I have no idea because I've never had a go at you for any reason. Perhaps an attitude readjustment could be on your list of new year's resolutions.

[PumaRacing 1]

PS - Jonathan. If peak power is as high as 7200 rpm which means you ideally want to rev it well past that you could do with my uprated valve spring system. The standard springs are only good for about 7200 and you don't want to be spitting a shim out and wrecking the valve train.

[PumaRacing 1]

PPS - Jonathan's car is a 1.6 with a standard bottom end of unknown vintage, my 43mm BV head, a Piper 285 cam which wouldn't have been my first choice but had already been bought and twin 45s. It's a rally car and needs good tractability rather than outright top end power. I was hoping for 150 bhp which at 95 bhp/litre ain't so bad for an eight valve tractable rally engine. It's close to the magic 100 bhp/litre which most eight valve full race engines never quite achieve anyway. It measured 91 bhp/litre with the wrong chokes and whether it has the full 95 now I clearly can't say as it hasn't been back to the same rollers. If anyone thinks they can do better from an engine with the same components then bring it on.

 

In the general tuning guide on my website I indicate 85 to 90 bhp litre as being a good target for eight valve engines in rally tune and we're above that with the wrong bits in.