Rose-jointed Wishbones

[Rik 0]

I've done a search for this but nothing came up,

 

It seems everytime someone talks about Rose Jointed Wishbones they say 'track car use only' or 'not for road cars'.

 

How bad are they really?

 

What sort of normal driveability suffers?

I mean, is it a knocking or clunking sound or does it make the car drive different in some way?

 

I would also like to know what size is the rose joint etc and where can i get one from - as i'll probably be making my own.

 

 

Cheers

 

Rik

[Martin@PRD 0]

Hi fella,

 

Theyre a few different types available on the market today, with lots of different comments good and bad that makes it so confusing,

 

I can only comment on a pair I bought from e-bay as talking about the type I have develop will piss the moderators of again hehehe.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/100_6605.jpg

 

This is a standard wishbone that has been cut and a threaded boss welded in, though who ever made these forgot one important factor, the spherical bearing (rose joint end), as this one pictured is a poor quality cast type (low steel content) that has poor characteristics and is easily bent, the inner shell is chrome plated which cracks and peels off destroying the copper bush, these are certainly not recommended for wishbone use.

 

Proper bearings are expensive and can be as much as £50+ each, but I wouldnt like to skimp for the sake of my life for a few extra quid in my pocket.

 

Martin

[M3Evo 0]

Good god there's no way I'd put my life in the hands of that piece of crap!

 

Also, the flash line around that rod-end looks too big to've been cast to me. Looks more consistent with forging IMO

[pacey205 2]

They do look shocking

 

Id have to agree with M3Evo with regards to that being a forging as well. Also (just a point) 'low in steel content' dosent actually mean anything because steel is an alloy with certain alloying additions, its not an element. Any Iron with below 2% Carbon is a steel below that its an iron.

 

Michael

Edited December 8, 2005 by pacey205

[Batfink 201]

Rik - back to your question. The handling will be better but you will suffer from more road noise, vibration, maybe bump steer too

 

Basically you will loose comfort in a big way

[Craigb 2]

I'm running the peugeot sport ones ( see the special tuning website for a picture) , of a similar design to the ones pictured in an earlier post , but of better quality .

 

The ride or harshness is not an issue with these as the original bushes are used on the in board mounts. IMHO the comment with regard to harshness etc apply to the fully rose jointed type ie three rose joints per wishbone.

 

Having used mine all year , i wouldn't go back to a std wishbone again ( mine are used in road rallies though)

 

Craig

[Wurzel 16]

Craig may be able to comment more having run his all year but from my experience of a rose jointed damper, I'd say they will need a greater amount of maintenance.

 

I fitted mine (dampers) and they worked fine until a particularly wet period followed by a two week stint with the car not moved.

 

Drove the car to the garage for fuel and the bearing had corroded and seized being unable to rotate. As a result, it snapped the body of the damper In hindsight, I'd have oiled them a little more often but didn't expect them to seize so quickly.

[Batfink 201]

is a rose jointed damper instead of the normal top mount setup???

[Craigb 2]

I only run the rose jointed wishbones, not the top mounts

 

I use the Gpn top mounts that still allow some shock absorbsion , If i ran the r/j top mounts I think i would be replacing them too often from the abuse they get off road

[Butler 0]

Inline with what Wurzel said I thought any rose jointed stuff wasn't good for day-to-day cars. The bearings need cleaning and maintaining too much.

[Martin@PRD 0]

They do look shocking

 

Id have to agree with M3Evo with regards to that being a forging as well. Also (just a point) 'low in steel content' dosent actually mean anything because steel is an alloy with certain alloying additions, its not an element. Any Iron with below 2% Carbon is a steel below that its an iron.

 

Michael

 

Oh feck my fault I mean low carbon content!!!! They are soft as buggery, I dropped one of the bearings and it went stiff as hell,

 

I was under the impression they were welded, though not really looked that closely though you are correct it does look like flash from the pictures, not sure what type of cast they are though there not "grey" cast I use to turn back in the day.

 

These I have, that I will be replacing the bearing to use, are no more noticeable on the road that standard wishbones these are simply to be able to change the geometry of the front suspension

 

Oh worst bit is I paid £240 for these off E-bay

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Oh feck my fault I mean low carbon content!!!! They are soft as buggery, I dropped one of the bearings and it went stiff as hell,

 

I was under the impression they were welded, though not really looked that closely though you are correct it does look like flash from the pictures, not sure what type of cast they are though there not "grey" cast I use to turn back in the day.

 

These I have, that I will be replacing the bearing to use, are no more noticeable on the road that standard wishbones these are simply to be able to change the geometry of the front suspension

 

Oh worst bit is I paid £240 for these off E-bay

 

I can't see those beeing cast at all, I guess they use either cold or hot-rolled steel and forge that. Maybe with heating it between the forging if it's forged in more than one operation, it need to be a bit ductile to be forged.

[Rik 0]

Thanks for the replies guys - very helpful.

 

Has any of you ever made your own?

 

what size is the rose joint etc and where can i get one from?

 

And what sort of maintenance do you all suggest? a quick grease now and again or complete removal for inspection and oiling/greasing?

 

Cheers

 

Rik

[Batfink 201]

probably a strip down and regrease every time it rains lol

[Rippthrough 98]

I can't see those beeing cast at all, I guess they use either cold or hot-rolled steel and forge that. Maybe with heating it between the forging if it's forged in more than one operation, it need to be a bit ductile to be forged.

 

 

Hot rolled, and probably reheated before forging too, you can see where they used the silicia to keep it from sticking to the die.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Rippthrough

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

Hi Rik,

 

Hope you got my pics of my home made R/J wishbones, the R/J's themselves can be purchased from Autosport Bearings & components Ltd. 01932 225777

Part nos reqd :-

 

2 off RBJ79MG £55 Ea + VAT

2 off RDDS12 £2.76 Ea + VAT

 

Don't forget you will have to make a pair of bushes for each wishbone and a locating/ load pin like the one in the photo I supplied you.

 

Any questions please ask.

 

Chris

[Rik 0]

Uh?..

 

Why do i have to make a pair of bushes for each wishbone i didnt think it effected those??

 

I'll probably need some more explanatory pics, as i'm new to all this RJ Wishbone business, do you know of a place on the net that will help explain things better, as i'm not fully clued up as to how they work.

 

Thanks for the reply chris. You've probably got a mail off me aswell.

 

Rik

[Paul T 0]

Chris

Do you have the size and spec of the outer rod ends. A mate rallys a Darrian

and while developing has tried loads of different rod ends. I'm sure he must

be some I could borrow

Did you modify a standard arm or make a complete arm using tube?

How does the rob end connect to the hub? A headless bolt clamped in the

hub with a nut to hold the rod end?

Are the rod ends Stainless, or can you get them?

[Craigb 2]

Paul

 

The parts you need are listed below

 

Rose joint 79MG ABC bearings

Rubber Seal ABC bearings

 

Craig

[TT205 42]

Hope you got my pics of my home made R/J wishbones

 

Chris

 

Chris

 

How about posting the pictures here?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

is a rose jointed damper instead of the normal top mount setup???

I might be wrong but I think Wurzel is talking about the rear damers he has that were fitted to a 309 GTi beam he bought that had rose joints instead of the upper 0& lower? ) bushes.

 

Dave, Chris has previously posted pictures of his wishbones here but they only show the hub end.

 

Graham.

[Rik 0]

Cool...

 

But does anyone know what angle the joint has to be at while using the 309 wishbones on a 205?

 

And are the BX 16v/other driveshafts going to fit? As i heard the 309 ones wont be long enough??

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

If you use proper rose joint adjustable 205 lower arms the standard 205 drivershaft should be fine, if not a 309 one is the most you'd need imo.

 

Graham.

[eob 7]

Is it possible to get bottom balljoints similar to rose-joints which just screw in, trackrod end style?

[Rik 0]

Graham, is there any point in using the 309 arms if i'm going to rose-joint them? as it will have the same effect wont it.

 

In my opinion i think the 309 would be stronger, as the more the RJ is wound out (e.g. Away from the car - pushing the bottom out) as it starts off as being longer so the RJ is being supported by the wish bone tube.

 

Let me know your opinions on this and say if you dont understand any of the above.

 

Rik