Beam Renovation - The Diary...

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Yesterday in a fit of madness I decided to try and lower my beam on the car using Jona's & Wurzels guide.

 

Using wurzels guide I started push the anti roll bar out with a ford bolt. This was surprisingly easy. I then proceeded to try to remove the stud on teh end of the anti roll bars. There was simply no way that I could remove this using a socket screwdriver and decided to remove the hex cap on the other side.

 

Then I then proceeded to remove the calipers and brake lines from the arm. Then DISASTER. The bolt that holds the mounting for the fexible brake line sheared off even though it was drowned in WD40.

 

On tackling the other side I took off the disc first this time and sprayed WD40 into teh hold on the other side, and wacked the screw a few times with a hammer. This did the trick and it came out fine, phew..

 

After I was satisfied everything was disconnected I donned earplugs, safety glasses and crqwled under the car with a 2kg lump hammer. About 5 wacks with the hammer and the arms popped off with ease

 

The right outer bearing had completly dissapeared but the bearing casing was intact.

 

The outer brearings were a bit of a bitch to get out but they came out in the end.

 

Now since this is my daily drive I need to urgently sort it out so I have a few questions.

 

Is this shaft too badly damaged to reuse?

 

Where should I buy the parts I need for refitting? PUG?

 

I plan just to replace the outer bearings and seals (Since they look ok and doing the inner one sound like a mare). Is this all I need??

 

5154 10 External seal (suspension arm seal holder)

5132 49 External bearing

 

My pitted outer shaft. It is a bit corroded and feels slighy rough to the touch. Small grooved from the bearing can be felt on the under side. (Picture from under side)

 

The other outer shaft. Very smooth and shiny

 

The inner shafts. Very smooth and shiny

 

The arms with torsion bar attached

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Edited September 25, 2005 by christopher

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Is this shaft too badly damaged to reuse?

My pitted outer shaft. It is a bit corroded and feels slighy rough to the touch. Small grooved from the bearing can be felt on the under side. (Picture from under side)

Yes.

I plan just to replace the outer bearings and seals (Since they look ok and doing the inner one sound like a mare). Is this all I need??

 

5154 10 External seal (suspension arm seal holder)

5132 49 External bearing

 

Where should I buy the parts I need for refitting? PUG?

No really, you'll need 5154 08 also.

This is the actual seal iirc.

 

Definately get the bearings from Pug just to be sure to get good ones imo.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,000]

You'll also need a 5154 09 for when you replace the knackered shaft - that's the cup thing that sits on the end that will bend with 99% certainty if you attempt to remove and reuse it.

 

As Graham says, that shaft is too far gone to reuse. Other one looks perfect and can certainly be reused no problem at all.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Ok Thanks Guys,

 

I'm going to order:

 

2 * 5154 08 02 SUSP ARM SEAL INT

1 * 5154 09 02 CUP INT (for replacing the shaft)

2 * 5154 10 02 CROSSMEMBR SEAL EXT

2 * 5132 49 02 SOCKET

1 * 03 5176 03 02 ARM SHAFT RP 5176 17 01

 

(These parts are listed but not needed right? 5179 08 02 INT & 5179 05 02 PLUG )

 

 

What is this part used for ? (5154 10 02 CROSSMEMBR SEAL EXT ) I didn't see anything behind the bearing when i took it out just a ridge...Is it that tiny rubber ring?

 

 

Do I need these parts too from the ARB diagram?

 

 

Pug Catalog

 

05 5172 24 02 BEARING BUSH (ARB)

06 5174 03 02 CROSSMEMBR SEAL (ARB)

Edited September 26, 2005 by christopher

[Butler 0]

Is the beam tube itself ok on the pitted shaft side?

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Is the beam tube itself ok on the pitted shaft side?

 

The rollers on the bearing on that side were gone. But the bearing casing was ther and intact. So the shaft was running against the bearing casing not the beam tube. when i removed the casing the tube seems to be ok (I think)

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

2 * 5154 08 SUSP ARM SEAL INT

1 * 5154 09 CUP INT (for replacing the shaft)

2 * 5154 10 CROSSMEMBR SEAL EXT

2 * 5132 49 SOCKET

1 * 5176 17 02 ARM SHAFT RP 5176 17 01

2 * 5172 24 BEARING BUSH (ARB)

2 * 5174 03 CROSSMEMBR SEAL (ARB)

 

Total price was 1055 kr. (£96) for peace of mind

 

Does anyone know what kind of grease I should be using for the bearings? (or do they come with some?)

Edited September 26, 2005 by christopher

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

They don't come with any grease except the small amount they are made up with. I use a lithium grease & pack them well with that.

 

5154 10 is the thin metal ring that the seal sits inside, make sure you don't hammer it on to far. Look through Alans topic with regards to how far to seat it on.

 

I've never replaced 5174 03 or 5172 24, 5172 24 is the rubber ring that is sat on the ARB end plate afaik but not sure about the other one.

 

Graham.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

2 * 5154 08 SUSP ARM SEAL INT

1 * 5154 09 CUP INT (for replacing the shaft)

2 * 5154 10 CROSSMEMBR SEAL EXT

2 * 5132 49 SOCKET

1 * 5176 17 02 ARM SHAFT RP 5176 17 01

2 * 5172 24 BEARING BUSH (ARB)

2 * 5174 03 CROSSMEMBR SEAL (ARB)

 

Total price was 1055 kr. (£96) for peace of mind

 

Does anyone know what kind of grease I should be using for the bearings? (or do they come with some?)

 

 

Total 1055,- dkr for all that?

I think I paid 750,- nok (63£) just for the arm shaft..

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

They don't come with any grease except the small amount they are made up with. I use a lithium grease & pack them well with that.

 

5154 10 is the thin metal ring that the seal sits inside, make sure you don't hammer it on to far. Look through Alans topic with regards to how far to seat it on.

 

I've never replaced 5174 03 or 5172 24, 5172 24 is the rubber ring that is sat on the ARB end plate afaik but not sure about the other one.

 

Graham.

 

Ok I'll have to find some multi purpose grease for the bearings. All I have is moly grease (which I used for the head bolts). Haynes says something about Esso Norva 275 grease for the splines on the TB's. Surely moly grease is ok no?

 

 

Also that topic of Alans there seems to be problems? I'm not sure what that gold seal looks like but all I remember taking off was some rubber seals on the end of the beam tube, the bearing and two tiny rubber rings on either side of the bearing. No big gold seal like that?

 

I guess allw will be clear when I pick up my bits....

 

 

I have also not removed the TB's ends with the locknut (they are still sitting in the arm on one side and into the beam on the other) I was planning to just wack them in. Isn't it as easy as that? I still will be able to adjust the ride height ok no?

Edited September 26, 2005 by christopher

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Surely moly grease is ok no?

Should be, any grease is better than none on the splines.

Also that topic of Alans there seems to be problems? I'm not sure what that gold seal looks like but all I remember taking off was some rubber seals on the end of the beam tube, the bearing and two tiny rubber rings on either side of the bearing. No big gold seal like that?

Its where the rubber seal sits inside & will have been rusted black & probably break when you removed the seal. It sits over the end of the centre tube & then the seal sits inside.

I guess allw will be clear when I pick up my bits....

I have also not removed the TB's ends with the locknut (they are still sitting in the arm on one side and into the beam on the other) I was planning to just wack them in. Isn't it as easy as that? I still will be able to adjust the ride height ok no?

Give the bar ends & beam fitting a really good clean with a wire brush & anything/everything you can in the splines so they slide together without grease, I usually get mine this clean anyway & then grease them on final re-assembly. I wouldn't whack them in at all unless you were certain they were aligned correctly & had then gone tight to avoid damaging the splines.

 

Graham.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Cheers Graham,

 

Looks like I'm all set now for the weekend job of putting it back together. All I need to do is find someone to press in the new shaft and remove the sheared bolt . Then I'm all set. I'm going to measure how far the shaft has been pushed in so they do it exactly the same:-)

 

I'm going to use nicks idea of a piece of wood as a fake shock to set the ride height to 305mm hopefully it will match the lowered front springs (of unknown origin). It is going to look really low at the back with the rally arches but lets see.

 

Right now its on axle stands without trailing arms on the road What wrong with it this time all the neighbours are saying. It looks serious..... Er no I'm just lowering the back a little he says with ARB bar in hand...oh so you are a mechanic then...er no I'm an IT man.... ok I see good luck

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Ok after getting all the parts from pug (and they were so helpful) I decided to ask them how much it would cost to remove a sheared blot and press in the trailing arm shaft...

 

800kr and hour * 2 hours + 25% tax = £200 I nearly fainted

 

So I go round to my dodgy mechanic place round the corner...beggers can't be choosers.

 

500kr (£45) later (yes nick I was robbed) and I received my arm back (with a slightly dented shaft on the inside edge...should be ok). Shaft was in anyways. He said he tried welding a nut to the bolt and twisting it out and it would not come out so hel had welded a 10 mm not to it instead p!55 feck...I wasn't happy with this kind of solution (even though it seemed fairly solid) since this bolt holds the braket that holds the fexible hose. So what do I do in a fit of rage I dremel it off

 

Now I have the task of drilling it out and maybe I can save some thread at the end of the hole since the bolt doesn't go all the way through. And/Or tapping a 6mm+ thread back in and using a long bolt

 

At these prices it almost worth buying a press, or moving to England

Edited September 29, 2005 by christopher

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Now I have the task of drilling it out and maybe I can save some thread at the end of the hole since the bolt doesn't go all the way through. And/Or tapping a 6mm+ thread back in and using a long bolt

There is another (long winded way) around this, I know because I have a caliper bracket on mine with the same problem but it sheared off flush. I swapped them over from left to right (or viceversa) & its fine. This is as long as you don't intend fitting the disc shields though. (I don't)

 

You have to remove the hub & everything though to do this & the 6mm allen bolts that hold the bracket on can also be rusted but usually come undone eventually.

 

Graham.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

There is another (long winded way) around this, I know because I have a caliper bracket on mine with the same problem but it sheared off flush. I swapped them over from left to right (or viceversa) & its fine. This is as long as you don't intend fitting the disc shields though. (I don't)

 

You have to remove the hub & everything though to do this & the 6mm allen bolts that hold the bracket on can also be rusted but usually come undone eventually.

 

Graham.

 

 

Why would you not want to use the guards??

 

Yep thats a good idea..BUT......if I do that I might need 2 new bearings too and the risk of snapping the other bolts too maybe....

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Ok after getting all the parts from pug (and they were so helpful) I decided to ask them how much it would cost to remove a sheared blot and press in the trailing arm shaft...

 

800kr and hour * 2 hours + 25% tax = £200 I nearly fainted

 

At these prices it almost worth buying a press, or moving to England

 

Or Norway? My local Peugeot dealer have pressed in/out both my trailingarm-shaft when I overhauled the beam, and also the rear enginemount-bush, completely free of charge

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

I hope your contact in your local Peugeot dealer is called someing like Lene That is pretty unheard of...

 

Or maybe they are just friendly in Norway. At least my norwegian neighbours are Not a fan of that brown cheese that tastes like toffee though

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Why would you not want to use the guards??

I don't really see the need of them & it makes a quick inspection of the rear discs condition so much easier without having to take the wheels off.

Yep thats a good idea..BUT......if I do that I might need 2 new bearings too and the risk of snapping the other bolts too maybe....

I'd be surprised if you needed to swap the rear wheel bearings by doing this, I've swapped mine round on two different beams so far wth no problems, maybe not ideal but at £30+vat a bearing, so far so good for me.

 

You could soak the other bolts in some penetrating fluid from the back once you get the disc off & can see the back of the threads.

 

Graham.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

I'd be surprised if you needed to swap the rear wheel bearings by doing this, I've swapped mine round on two different beams so far wth no problems, maybe not ideal but at £30+vat a bearing, so far so good for me.

 

 

Graham,

 

I can't see anything in Haynes. Do you just take the dust cap off remove pin an pull off? Of do I need a puller or something?

 

I've read this. But I'n not clear if the bearings are pushed into hub. I Just don't want to stomach another 70 quid on this...:-(

 

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...598&hl=rear+hub

Edited September 30, 2005 by christopher

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

How long does it take for the bearings to wear out? Seems like they wear down quite quickly compared to all other bearings on a car.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Graham,

 

I can't see anything in Haynes. Do you just take the dust cap off remove pin an pull off? Of do I need a puller or something?

Sorry for the delayed reply.

 

You just need to undo the hubnut & then remove then hub assembly from the axle. Getting the inner race off might involve you using a puller if you have access to one or having to knock the stub axle in slightly just to free it off or but if you do make sure you protect the end so it doesn't mushroom over when you hit it but iirc last time I did one it came free ok. The bearing is fixed into the hub as a single piece but the inner & outer races can become loose over time so when you remove them they fallout, iirc they are loose on refitting.

 

Graham.

[Sam 4]

Why would you not want to use the guards??

 

They don't really serve much of a purpose, you don't have them on the front brakes (which are much more important!!)

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

 

You just need to undo the hubnut & then remove then hub assembly from the axle. Getting the inner race off might involve you using a puller if you have access to one or having to knock the stub axle in slightly just to free it off or but if you do make sure you protect the end so it doesn't mushroom over when you hit it but iirc last time I did one it came free ok. The bearing is fixed into the hub as a single piece but the inner & outer races can become loose over time so when you remove them they fallout, iirc they are loose on refitting.

 

Graham.

 

Thanks for your reply Graham. Yesterday I wimped out of swopping all this round and drilled it out instead. I used a 5.5 mm drill bit and a 6mm tap all the way through. It worked ok. The thread was not super tight but ok when tightened up. I used loctite for good measure.

 

 

Day 2:

################################################################

 

After cleaning the splines and painting the arms I went forward and refitted the beam. Hammering in the seal holders and the bearing. Getting in the bearing without damaging it whist tapping it in was a bit of a mare (I used an old trailing arm shaft). And managed to make a tiny dint in one :-( which meant that the bearing race was a tiny bit stiff. I set the seal holders to 0.035inches to the beam tube. The new cup on teh shaft was so tight that I could not slip it on teh new shaft so in the end I used the old one...

 

Inserting the arms. I put tons of bearing grease around the bearings and shaft and inserted it in. Then I made up a piece of wood for a dummy shock that was 305mm between the holes. Attaching this to the top and then swinging the arm up, if I gently pused the torsion bar in the slot it would hold at that particular spine level. Finally I rested on one where the lower bolt could be inserted exactly into the dummy shock:-D

 

 

I repeated the process on the other side. All went fine. Splines were greased with moly grease which is used for head bolts. I could not be arsed to lower and check it so i just hoped for the best.

 

The rest of the process was pretty straighforward.

####################################################################

 

Summary.

 

what was a b!tch?

 

Removing the outer bearing. - A hammer, screwdriver and a lot of swearing

 

Hammering out the arms - took 5 good wacks with a 2kg hammer

 

Hammering in the outer bearings - without damaging them

 

Getting the new shaft pressed in - cost me 50 quid:-O

 

Removing the flexible hose bolt - I sheared mine make sure you give it a good wack with a hammer before

 

taking the bus to peugeot

 

How much did it cost?

 

For 2 new outer bearings, all the seals, gease and a new shaft, and shaft being pressed in cost me about £150

 

Useful tools

 

A dummy shock - I used a piece of wood.

drift to hammer in the bearing - I used an old trailing arm shaft

2kg hammer

 

how long did it take?

 

I used a day to remove the beam and then a few hours to clean it and a day to assemble it

 

SUMMARY

 

It was a lot of work to do and now I understand how the beam works now. Since it is all greased up it should be very easy to separate again.

 

For the price and effort involved it is doable by a DIY mechanic. However the price that Anthony and Wurzel charge for a new beam (£250 to £300 if I remember rightly) is very reasionable considering the time, money and effort involved.

 

If I was in UK I would have probably got one from Anthony because he live fairly close to my parents (in herfordshire)

 

 

The Result

 

The back of the car looks much better now. However looks much lower then a Gti, since the Rallye arches cover a lot of the space between the wheel and the arch. I will have to shave a bit of the pastic arch off. At the moment I cannot get my fingers in between the wheel and the arch

 

I'll post some pictures up soon

 

 

Many Thanks to everyone who has helped me on this thread. Much appreciated :-D

Edited October 3, 2005 by christopher

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Glad it all went Ok in the end & your car is now back on the wheels with a working rear beam. ;D

 

The first one is always the hardest (as with everything Pug) but when you get a couple under you belt (or a hundred like Anthony or Wurzel ) they become easy if not somewhat tedious with the same problems everytime.

 

I've got a rebuild planned on my mums 205 at the end of the month, I've had the beam off this weekend to fit new brakelines through out for the MOT & I'm glad ebay exists or I wouldn't have one of these to make brake pipes up, after seeing one at the local garage I wanted one & thankfully the ebay bidding sun was shining on me when I won that for under £60 iirc.

 

Just the front end to finsih, ARB rubbers & wishbone bushes tomorrow morning & then re-test time.

 

Graham.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Ok finally I have a digital camera so I can take a picture of the Rallye. The back is now lowered using the thin splines as level as I can make it. Looks ok I think. Not sure how low it is but a standard 1.9 beam with one thick spline was too low.

 

 

 

 

 

1.9 beam lowered with thin splines. Front with unknown lowering springs

 

 

 

Original Ride Height: 14" (1.3 Rallye)

 

 

New standard springs at front standard 1.9 Gti Beam lowered one thick spline (1.3 Rallye)

 

 

Original Ride Height with Griffiths 15" (1.9 Rallye)

 

Edited January 8, 2006 by christopher