Magneti Marelli 8p Vs Motronic 3.1

[smckeown 1]

So whats the difference between these then, looks like they are both mappable. Looking for suitability for the mi16

 

cheers

sean

[smckeown 1]

Searching again on Magneti, it's seems to be a more modern setup, as per the GTI6, and uses low imputance injectors.

 

Any other thoughts as to the suitability of wither to an mi16 ?

 

Sean

[DrSeuss 0]

With 8p you'll be looking at having to fit a cat, unless you can find a system from a non cat car (of which there aren't many). More suited to mapping with throttle bodies rather then a plenum from what wayne has told me, something to do with a greater degree of freedom using speed sites not load sites.

 

The main issue is with the donor cars features, do you want to retain an icv? do you have the ability to get a lambda boss installed if required? Most 8p cars came with a keypad so will require unlocking or circumvention. I've got a 106 xsi mp3.1 system, no cat, no keypad 3 wire installation. A piece of piss imo. Completely self contained, 8p will be similar.

[smckeown 1]

A very interesting, i'll continue with e 3.1 route then

 

What did u change from to be so easy ?

 

cheers

sean

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I got an 8P loom & ecu for TT205 for use on his hillclimb car which he is fitting Throttle bodies to afaik over this winter because 8P is better suited to use with carbs & throttle bodies rather than an inlet plenum.

 

I'll send Dave the link & maybe he can give you some more answers but I think Sam has said pretty much everything, although fitting a boss for the lambda sensor isn't exactly a big job.

 

I got Dave the loom from a ZX 2.0i Volcane that had a XU10 engine fitted but iirc that didn't have an ICV fitted or an SAD.

 

Graham.

[smckeown 1]

thanks, extremely useful that.

 

Shame there isnt 1 OE ECU that works well with or without TBs.

 

Sean

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I was going to go MP3 on my TT, but I've now sold it, I AM going 8P on my sprint car (with throttlebodies)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the loom you've been asking about Sean in BigD's for sale topic.

 

Thanks for that Info Dave, some extra enlightentment into what I'm going for there.

 

Graham.

[TT205 42]

Interesting comments about the Emerald...

 

Private comments too, so please keep them private

[Anthony 1,000]

Private comments too, so please keep them private

If you wanted them to stay private, wasn't posting them on a public forum a wee bit daft then?

[TT205 42]

If you wanted them to stay private, wasn't posting them on a public forum a wee bit daft then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's come up once or twice where someone has reproduced an email without asking the permission of the author because the majority of the content of the email is of great interest

 

- I've generally found people on this forum can be discrete - but you are quite right, good point, it was a bit daft and I will remove certain comments

 

 

 

So the abridged version is now:

 

 

 

I was going to go MP3 on my TT, but I've now sold it, I AM going 8P on my sprint car (with throttlebodies)

 

 

Below are snippets from various emails regarding the Mp3 and 8P.

 

>>>

 

The load strategy on most competition systems is not ideal for turbo road

cars but is fine for competition where idle quality is unimportant. If

your car is 'dual purpose' then MP3.1 is still the better bet overall. You

could use one of many different types of ECU but the MP3.1 is plentiful,

cheap and will do a good reliable job. The only downside is that you

cannot mess with the programming yourself (often a good thing), and would

need someone who understands hex data and has an emulator to programme it.

I don't charge any more for mapping a road car ECU than I do for a

competition system so it is six of one and half a dozen of the

other really.

 

 

>>>

The MP3.1 system will work fine on a nat asp car. It does not work

well with throttle bodies though, for this you would use a Marelli 8P

system or similar. If you are using the stock manifold though the Bosch

system works a treat. The main gains that you will see with it, over the

stock 'clockwork' system, would be through optimised ign. timing (digital

see) and improved breathing without the AFM.

 

>>>

8P's are fitted to 1.8 and 2.0 405s, 306s, Xantias, 106 Rallye, 106 XSi, etc

from between about '92 and '96. Some are immobilized but there are usually

plenty of them in the breakers so if you buy a few then one of them is

likely to not be immobilizaed. If you get one from a running car you can

de-immobilize it yourself by disconnecting the ECU while the engine is

running. This stops the immobilizer from writing the new code to the ECU and

from then on the ECU will be de-immobilized- as long as you do not put it on

a car with an immobilizer which will re-code the ECU

 

 

>>>

Pug 106 Rallye loom is from the same family of ECU so it should work, as

long as it really is a Rallye and not an XSi.

 

Plug in and turn key. If it starts it's not immobilizaed. If the pump primes

when you yurn ign on and it has a spark but does not start (because it is

not injecting any fuel) then it is immobilized. Even if it is it can be

removed for about £75

 

>>>

A common mistake is to get the TPS wiring wrong. You need about 0.8v at

closed throttle and about 4.2v+ at full throttle. If you have something

wildly different to this then the wirings the wrong way about.

 

 

Hope this is of some help

 

Dave

Edited December 21, 2004 by TT205

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Is there a list of the cars 8P came on then and how can the system be distinguished?

[DrSeuss 0]

Though this website only covers peugeot its very comprehensive and worth a look when thinking about finding a loom/management donor.

 

http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/intl/en/pdf...ll_peugeot.html

[Sam 4]

With 8p you'll be looking at having to fit a cat, unless you can find a system from a non cat car

 

Why would you need to fit a cat? I'm sure that could be mapped around? I mean people decat them without problems?

[Ryan 99]

Though this website only covers peugeot its very comprehensive and worth a look when thinking about finding a loom/management donor.

 

http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/intl/en/pdf...ll_peugeot.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Changing the last bit of the URL from 'peugeot' to 'citroen' or 'alfa' reveals some more cars you can snatch the ECU from, there are loads!

 

Also according to the peugeot page some 205 1.9s have the MP3.1 as standard?

[DrSeuss 0]

Sorry, you'd not have to fit a cat, but a lambda sensor would still be required. The only advantage to a peugeot loom is that its a relatively easy fit, most same series engines (XU, TU) have sensors in the right places to wire the loom straight in, beyond that extra work fitting the loom may be required.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

how can the system be distinguished?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know how to distinguish it from sight alone, the only way to be sure is to find the ecu, it should say on a sticker on there.

 

Sam (Dr Seuss) fitting a Lambda sensor wouldn't be a difficult job, all you need is a drill & suitably sized nut to weld on to the downpipe for the sensor to thread into with the downpipe off the car.

 

Graham.

[DrSeuss 0]

No, i'm aware of whats involved in the fitting process. But nevertheless, it still needs doing, another annoyance. Also where do you fit a probe if your using a 4-2-1 manifold etc. its just an extra hassle that you can avoid with mp3.1

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Also where do you fit a probe if your using a 4-2-1 manifold etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same place (almost) as if you have the standard system with a hole drilled for the sensor, on the downpipe where all the runners are in one pipe rather than higher where they are still seperate.

 

Graham.

[huckleberry 0]

I've been thinking about this before and am thinking about it now again afther the other topic about the m8p on the 8v on TBs.

 

I personally don't like the standard EMS on the 205 gti.

I want to go the turbo-route on it (have a box of TT stuff already) but not yet as that is just very expensive and my first priority is driving the car and converting it is only when money isn't needed for that.

 

So my plan was to first have some kind of other / better management on the standard engine first. And then later when I have more money (to buy a new turbo, etc). I'd like to add the turbo and related parts.

 

Reading the above section makes me think that if I wouldn't go for something like DTA of KMS but stay in Pug EMS the Motrinic 3.1 would be best. But even though I've read the comment about it I still quite don't understand why is is better than the 8p system for that. Maybe I need to read more about it to understand but what exactly makes the one better for TBs and the other for a single plenum car? Is m3.1 also compatible with different injectors you'll need to go turbo?

 

I hope some has time to explain it to me a little more.

 

Tim

[smckeown 1]

as far as i have understood and read on other posts, 8p i better for TBs and 3.1 is better for single throttle pot

 

3.1 can be used with different injectors just like any other ECU a long as you get it mapped to cope

 

HTH

[huckleberry 0]

as far as i have understood and read on other posts, 8p i better for TBs and 3.1 is better for single throttle pot

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

My question is more like: why is 3.1 better for a single throttle pot? Would it hurt if I found myself an 8p and used that for my 8v with eventually a turbo?

 

Tim

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Maybe because 8p is using a TPS and MP3 is using a MAF sensor.

[TT205 42]

Looking back at old posts - the MP3 isn't ideal for use on throttle bodies as you don't get a steady vacuum signal, whereas you do with 8P

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that the ease of conversion with the MP3 is that if you take it from an XU based car you can use the donor throttle body with the TPS fitted - no need to make up a bracket etc, therefore this should work with any single throttle body application including turbo

 

But for throttle bodies as said above you need the 8P (I'm unsure about carbs - Pugtorque will probably know)

Edited December 22, 2005 by TT205

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Pugtorque will probably know

But I don't.

 

Graham.

[niklas 1]

Maybe because 8p is using a TPS and MP3 is using a MAF sensor.

 

Exactly...