Acceptable crank end float

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

Does anyone know what is the acceptable end float, 88mm diesel crank in an XU10 bottom end?

Ive kept the thrust bearings from the XU10 crank on the number 2 mains but seem to have fairly significant end float. Was there ever an option for thicker thrust bearings? Note number 4 is also machined for them but never seen any XU10 with them in use? 

[Tom Fenton 1,640]

0.15-0.3mm is in my head, but you’d have to look that up to double check. 

[DamirGTI 362]

How much do you have ? 

 

Specs for XU10 is pretty wide :

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

21 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

How much do you have ? 

 

Specs for XU10 is pretty wide :

A lot more, not measured but by eye it's in the 1.5mm region.

It's been suggested I should be using the diesel thrust bearings. 

Will measure the XU10 ones tomorrow and compare with the the diesel listed bearings. For some reason XU10 part number doesn't how thickness. 

[SRDT 249]

I have 0,07 to 0,27mm for end float on XU engines.

Richie you can find 88mm diesel turbo cranks (XUD9 or DW10) with or without rolled filets. Rolled fillets cranks are using 2.28mm thrust washers (0118 G2 ex 0117 79) like non turbo XUD7/9, cranks without rolled filets need 1.83mm thrust washers (0118 F4 ex 0117 95) like XUD7T(E) or XU10.

 

You can see them both with repair ones here:

https://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/205N/0/01E80A.HTM

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

1 minute ago, SRDT said:

I have 0,07 to 0,27mm for end float on XU engines.

Richie you can find 88mm diesel turbo cranks (XUD9 or DW10) with or without rolled filets. Rolled fillets cranks are using 2.28mm thrust washers (0118 G2 ex 0117 79) like non turbo XUD7/9, cranks without rolled filets need 1.83mm thrust washers (0118 F4 ex 0117 95) like XUD7T(E) or XU10.

 

You can see them both with repair ones here:

https://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/205N/0/01E80A.HTM

Thanks, yeah I have found that info as well now. Couldn't find the standard thickness for the 4rs bearing but guessing it's he same 1.83 like other XU10. Will measure up, suspect I need some xud9 bearings. 

[petert 637]

Strange. I have always been able to use XU10 thrust washers with 88mm forged cranks to achieve 0.07-0.27. In some cases, it has been <0.07 and I've had to rub the backs on abrasive paper to remove high spots.

[SRDT 249]

Yes the RS is using the same 1.83mm ones than the other XU10, even the crank is the same, at least as a spare part.

[petert 637]

The other interesting fact, is that PSA used a least two different companies to manufacture the cranks. One fits in XU10 blocks the other doesn't. 

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

Got the DTI on it, near as damn it 1.1mm end float, 1.87 thrust bearings so ordered a set of the 2.28. Should solves the problem. 

Thanks all

[petert 637]

Theoretically you’ll be at 0.28? Keep us posted.

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

Will if I ever get it together, just went to fit the pistons and 2 oil control rings won't fit, as if the expandeds are ever so slightly over size. 

All new Goetze kits. Off to find some other ring kits now. 

Hopefully have the thrusts early next week along with new rings again

[DamirGTI 362]

Yep aftermarket parts are really strange lately .. quality of certain parts is simply toilet compared to what it used to be .

 

I have Mahle rings here for 8v XU10 , made in Mexico ..

Haven't tried fitting them on the pistons yet , but checked the gaps in freshly sleeved block back on std. spec and they're a bit loose on the gaps ..

Perfect for my turbo build , but would be bit too wide for NA especially in old worn bores .

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

Update. 

New rings arrived soni manages to get the pistons in. 

New thrust bearings arrived and they are way thicker than advertised and won't even go in. Sadly not even good enough to use on one side and keep originals the other. Now looking for a more reliable source. 

[welshpug 1,735]

how thick are they and meant to be?

 

are you trying to feed them in or drop the crank in after fitting?

[petert 637]

I'm still somewhat confused. According the ACL book,

 

XUD9TE 2T7715 1.88mm (forged)
XUD9A 2T7703 2.33mm (cast)

XU9J4 2T7703 2.33mm (cast)

XUD11ATE 2T7715 1.88mm (forged)

 

Could it be that you're trying to fit a cast diesel crank into the iron block? Send a pic of your crank.

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

10 hours ago, welshpug said:

how thick are they and meant to be?

 

are you trying to feed them in or drop the crank in after fitting?

Part number 0117.79 should be 2.28mm, I have one that is 2.25 and three that are 2.48. Just very poor quality control I reckon. 

Feeding them in. 

Peter is an 88mm xud9 crank

Edited Friday at 05:29 AM by Richie-Van-GTi

[SRDT 249]

2.25mm for 2.28 isn't that bad, you have 0.2mm of total play because neither the block, the crank nor the bearings are perfect. It could even be that "2.25" is the absolute maximum value to get at least 0.07mm of play with the most extreme block and crank.

Now for the 2.48mm ones let's hope that they are simply +0.20mm (0118.A8) that got misplaced. If not then manufacturing is really all over the place.

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

42 minutes ago, SRDT said:

2.25mm for 2.28 isn't that bad, you have 0.2mm of total play because neither the block, the crank nor the bearings are perfect. It could even be that "2.25" is the absolute maximum value to get at least 0.07mm of play with the most extreme block and crank.

Now for the 2.48mm ones let's hope that they are simply +0.20mm (0118.A8) that got misplaced. If not then manufacturing is really all over the place.

The seller is investigating, but while I wait I have got another set coming from a local engine parts supplier. Hopefully they are correct, thankfully not an expensive part. Managed a little mock up so far today, head is on but no chance of cams etc until the crank is sorted. 

 

[petert 637]

16 hours ago, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Peter is an 88mm xud9 crank

But is it an XUD9TE crank? Does it have a wide or narrow parting line?

[DamirGTI 362]

I also bought new thrust washers , std. version for cast crank , and those do not fit either ! they're too thick ..

 

Not that i really needed them as prevously i've been reusing them pretty much all the time , but simply bought the lot of the "good new stuff" with the rest of the parts thinking that's the right thing to do ..

[SRDT 249]

What block was it? The XU10J4 and XU10J4TE are not using the same thrust bearings than the others, they should also be 1.83mm but the part number is 0118.C8.

https://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/405N/0/05A40A.HTM

[DamirGTI 362]

RGY , XU10J2TE !

 

True , the old OE thrust washers are about 1.83/1.84mm , new ones which i bought are 1.88mm !

[SRDT 249]

I think I found the spec, its +0.05/+0 so a brand new "1.83" thrust washer can go from 1.83 up to 1.88mm.

[Richie-Van-GTi 82 2 Cars]

Got another set, FIA ones this time and correct size, went straight in problem solved. 

PeterT, sorry, forgot to grab a photo before I put the windage tray etc back. The crank doesn't look the same as either photo. It's got a chamfered edge to it rather than radius. Looks somewhere between the 2.

Anyway, it's a non turbo crank I know that for sure.