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Telf

Emerald ECU

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Telf

Hi all.

 

I'm hoping someone might have some experience with Emerald ECU setups. I'm running an 8V on a Emerald ECU with an AFR fitted.

 

It's always run in open loop but recently I set it to adaptive and here are the results 

 

AFM correction

 

 

 

20240608_165748.jpg

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Telf

Here's the feedback table, you can see the areas in adaptive mode

Screenshot_20240608-171754.jpg

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Telf

Here's the AFR targets, I'm not sure this is right at all!

 

 

Screenshot_20240608-171958.jpg

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Telf

Here's the closed loop settings page

 

Screenshot_20240608-172106.jpg

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Telf

And here's a live page once warmed up:

Screenshot_20240608-172251.jpg

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Telf

The car seems to run OK but and I've said this before and I know this is unscientific it always smells rich when it's idling. The last MOT was a struggle to pass the emissions. If you raised the throttle just past idle (it idles at 975rpm) then it passes no problem.

 

I had it back to Emerald about 2 years ago and I'm wondering does it need to go back in for a check. The engine has done about 20k since I built it. 

 

Physically the oil looks fine after 6k and gets changed. Coolant has been replaced twice in the 4 years since build and sparks look good.

 

On the face of it the car seems to be ok. I set the AFR to adaptive to see what it would do and appreciate it would likely adjust the targets as that's its purpose as far as I can understand.

 

Anyway, any thoughts appreciated 

 

Cheers 

 

Paul 

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Telf
Posted (edited)

Just to be clear the car was original sent to Emerald when it was built. It then went bavk about 3 months later for a tweek. I fitted the AFR after that as I really wanted to see how it was behaving and have only recently messed with the tables. When I fitted the AFR I sent my AFR target table to Emerald and they said yes looks about right but I'm not sure tbh!

Edited by Telf

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petert

There’s usually not enough flow at idle to get a reliable closed loop. Thus you’d make <1200 open loop and closed loop from there on. Additionally, your target AFR table is too rich at part load, low rpm. A lot more of it should be 14.7. 

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Telf

Hey Peter, thanks for the reply. 

 

So on the TPS 0 line it should be open loop up to 1200 rpm then closed loop correct? 

 

In terms of the AFR target table the area. Too rich at part load low rpm which area should I adjust. I presume the area I've taken a screen shot of below?

Screenshot_20240609-114808.jpg

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petert

Sorry, I don't have my tuning laptop with me to post an example, so I made a spreadsheet.

Do those TPS positions in the AFR table match the Fuel table? They don't necessarily have to. However, the TPS opening is not linear. You should add a 1% line, as there is a big step from 0% to 3%.

 

Also, please post real screen shots. Phone pics are hard to read.

Screenshot 2024-06-10 at 7.15.50 am.png

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Tom Fenton
On 6/8/2024 at 5:23 PM, Telf said:

And here's a live page once warmed up:

Screenshot_20240608-172251.jpg

This says to me the injectors are too big. Only 4% duration and its only just above idle. What duration are they showing when at or around full power area? If the lambda reading is correct eg 11.2 then yes its really rich and will stink.

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petert

Additionally to what Tom said, the current correction is +/- 8%. You should tune it in open loop mode closer than that, so closed loop can pull it in < +/- 5%. That's why I like the AFR table to match the TPS table.

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Telf
11 hours ago, petert said:

Do those TPS positions in the AFR table match the Fuel table? They don't necessarily have to. However, the TPS opening is not linear. You should add a 1% line, as there is a big step from 0% to 3%

Hey peter. 

 

I don't know the answer to any of this and will have a look on my laptop. I'm fairly certain the increments match. If I can work out how to add a 1% line I'll set it all to match the example you have given.

 

Am I right in presuming that I've got the AFR control table wrong ? the open/closed and adaptive settings? I set it like this a week or so ago and have driven it for a solid week just to see what changes would occur. prior to this it was in closed loop across the whole table 

 

Ref pics yep sorry I was screenshotting off my phone v tired yesterday - ill get better ones

 

2 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

This says to me the injectors are too big. Only 4% duration and its only just above idle. What duration are they showing when at or around full power area? If the lambda reading is correct eg 11.2 then yes its really rich and will stink.

Tom,

 

The injectors are the standard 1.9 that were removed. tested, cleaned and reused when I built the car. how is the duration altered? 

 

When I took the car for its initial setup as I said it did not have the lamda sensor fitted. The car was setup on Emerald's rolling road with a exhaust sensor that (IMO) didn't fit well, it kept falling out - I've always wondered if they got the setup right but they insisted on the second visit all was well. In my ignorance (most likely) I have always presumed there would be some evidence of over fueling eg burnt or dirty sparks or something but I've never found anything at all.

 

I've got to the stage where although i still enjoy driving the car I'm totally sick of it. It just feels off and I don't know how to fix it. Its also been to a well regarded lotus tuning garage who basically were totally useless. So I like to get this resolved with people who actually understand these cars!

 

 

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Tom Fenton

The duration percentage is how long the injector is on for. 100% would be fully open all the time. 0% fully shut. 4% is very low as there is also the dead time e.g. the time it takes the injector to open and close when it isn't passing anything.

 

Are the basics correct and checked? Fuel pressure 3 bar? Is the lambda set up correctly to the ECU, does it have a standalone gauge, is the scaling set up right so the standalone gauge and the ECU both read the same numbers?

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Telf

Tom,

 

Are the basics correct and checked? Fuel pressure 3 bar? Is the lambda set up correctly to the ECU, does it have a standalone gauge, is the scaling set up right so the standalone gauge and the ECU both read the same numbers?

 

Last time I checked fuel pressure was at 3 bar. The standalone gauge was set to the ECU as per the instructions in the manuals. The readings on the laptop and gauge match.

 

 

 

 

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Telf

This issue was discussed quite a bit in this thread from about page 6 onwards. Its never really been resolved imo.

 

 

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Tom Fenton

Have you actually tried altering the main fuelling table in the area it idles? Quite easy to do, just make sure you have a saved copy of the original map that you can go back to if needed. That is where I would start because making it idle at within reason whatever CO value you want, is really easy with a mappable ECU. You should be able to sit there with a laptop while its on the MOT emissions tester and turn it down with a few key presses. 

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petert

I really have nothing further to add as I'm not familiar with the product. My best advice is to change to open loop, tune manually between 14-14.7 in the light loads you use most often (60-100 km/h), then turn closed loop back on again.

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Telf
On 6/10/2024 at 3:00 PM, Tom Fenton said:

Have you actually tried altering the main fuelling table in the area it idles?

Tom, I don't see a screen to directly alter the fueling ?

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Telf

OK so my logic is telling me from the AFR correction screen that the blocks with a - minus like -8 mean there must be too much fuel right? Eg the block is set to AFR 14.7 but the correction is reading -8.0. This is in adaptive mode so that means the ECU is saying reduce the AFR target which means too much fuel? 

20240614_122910.jpg

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Tom Fenton

It is all in the Emerald manual which is pretty well written.

 

You can get it to apply the corrections saved in the adaptive part to the main map permanently, if you wish.

 

If you do start altering the map then the key thing is to ensure you save each version to a PC before you make any changes, with a record of which is which. You can then always roll back to a previous version.

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Telf

the original map had the Injection map on TPS 0 at 850 and 1000 RPM set to 52 and 48 which Ive reduced to 47 and 43. If i go any lower the engine starts to chug and idle roughly. this has pushed the AFR towards 12/13.

Screenshot 2024-06-14 133718.png

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Telf

Tom,

 

Just read your reply and decided to dig out the manual... I know I know b4 you say anything.

 

Anyway I took the Adaptive AFR correction figures and applied all to the injection table and..... voila. it is now idling at about 14 AFR. 

 

I don't really understand this tbh. Did emerald just rough tune it? has it altered over time as the engine has worn in? I presume this must be the case?

 

I looked at the injector duration and that hasn't changed- reading the manual i don't see how to influence it. As soon as I press the accelerator the duration increases as youd expect.

 

 

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Richie-Van-GTi
On 6/14/2024 at 2:48 PM, Telf said:

Tom,

 

Just read your reply and decided to dig out the manual... I know I know b4 you say anything.

 

Anyway I took the Adaptive AFR correction figures and applied all to the injection table and..... voila. it is now idling at about 14 AFR. 

 

I don't really understand this tbh. Did emerald just rough tune it? has it altered over time as the engine has worn in? I presume this must be the case?

 

I looked at the injector duration and that hasn't changed- reading the manual i don't see how to influence it. As soon as I press the accelerator the duration increases as youd expect.

 

 

Paul could you share a screen of your ignition table please, interested to see how it compares to mine as I am trying to cure a mid range hesitation.

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