She’s hot

[mmt 14]

Hi guys, 

In my 16v race car I am getting Oil temperatures of 130c (and rising) after only 4 laps (2.5 km each). I retired the race after those 4 laps. Engine sounded fine and healthy though. 
 

how hot is your Oil getting. I am worried that the engine is getting damaged - should I be worried? 
 

water temp is 85-90 c. Oil pressure is fine between 3-5 bar depending on revs. Oil is 10w60. 
 

i run an after marked oil cooler twice the size of the original gti oil cooler. 
 

I’m wondering if a duct to the oil filter/housing would do any good? Any thoughts, tricks or ideas to get the oil temp down??? 
 

much appreciated. 
 

/m
 

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

Where is the cooler situated? How many rows has the cooler? Are you running a skid plate? Which type of sump do you have? How much blowby does the engine generate?

[SweetBadger 91]

Before I upgraded my radiator (used to use a std Nissens one), I used to see 135C oil and 100C water. That was 45min races - seemed to stabilise there.

 

A decent 50mm core radiator brought both water and oil temps right down - now 110C oil, 90C water 

my setup is below (210hp GTi6 engine)

 

If the oil cooler is in front of, or behind the radiator it needs to be very close to it to ensure the air flow is not disturbed in between them. Ensuring air can’t pass around the sides of the rad is also important- I retained a modified standard cowl to achieve this.

[petert 549]

Dry sump it. It cures cooling issues, increases hp and eliminates oil surge. I run a 13 row cooler with a standard radiator, in Australia.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

4 hours ago, SweetBadger said:

Before I upgraded my radiator (used to use a std Nissens one), I used to see 135C oil and 100C water. That was 45min races - seemed to stabilise there.

 

A decent 50mm core radiator brought both water and oil temps right down - now 110C oil, 90C water 



Which radiator is that? (need also a lower one for itb's)

 

Mine is also running at around 130C oil. I think the oil will still work at that temp (as long as pressure remains ok), but will age quicker and needs more often to be changed. But probably you already do with a trackday car. 

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

130°C is borderline acceptable imho. The cooler should be more than big enough as far as I can see in the picture, position looks ok as well. I can imagine if you would rotate it 90 degrees I could catch more wind in the bottom bumper slot.

 

PSA states for the XU9J4 140°C continuous as ok apparantly. I've attached the whole datasheet for reference. Unfortunately I have no datasheet of the "newer" XU engines.

 

PugXUmotor.pdf

[mmt 14]

Hi Guys 

all the right questions. Brilliant! 
 

I run a Big fat skid plate under the entire front of the car. Taking all the wind under the car - next move was to remove it for encreased ariflow. 
 

i run an Old style steel sump with Peugeot sport rubber baffles. Would like it to stay. 
 

oilcooler is similar to the one in your pic above. Also placed (in front of) close to the water rad(standard gti size). 
 

no cowling though. 
 

I turned my fan on for the entire race dermed to work right. 
 

would an Air duct to the oilfilter do any good (easy instalment!). 
 

talked to a motorsport shop guy at the track He advised that the Oil would endure 130c but would Think that something was wrong which then caused the high temp. 
 

thanks 

 

/M

 

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

6 minutes ago, mmt said:

i run an Old style steel sump with Peugeot sport rubber baffles.

Oh, I now see it wasn't your reply I thought I was reacting to .

 

The sump helps cooling the oil as well, the (XU9) Mi16 sumps have additional ribs to aid cooling. That might be just enough and it should work with your constella (I assume) PTS style baffles. You may need to tweak the baffles a bit here and there.

Otherwise add some louvres in the sump guard near the sump.

[DamirGTI 323]

Having same high oil temp. on my mild tuned 8v , always while motorway driving and when ever pressing on a bit faster (during the summer especially) oil gets to the 130-140C mark .

Oil pressure wise though it's always good no matter the elevated oil temp. (10w-40 oil) .

 

It's been like so for around 10 years or maybe even more , during the years i did the engine strip down/inspection and haven't found any wear on the crank bearings , crankshaft , camshaft etc.

I'm changing oil every 6 months or 10K Km's which ever comes first .

 

Question mark , how accurate is the OE dash oil temp. gauge ? ... would be best to check with IR thermometer , OE gauge/sender might easily "over-read" by certain % . 

 

D

Edited May 23, 2022 by DamirGTI

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

I really have to give it all to get it above 110°C. But I have a heat exchanger and aluminium Mi16 sump. The con is during colder weather (<10°C) I practically can't get the oil up to temperature whilst driving at the motorway. 70/80 °C at best.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Motorway is not comparable with driving on track temperature wise. Constant full throttle will produce much more heat than high speed cruising. 

 

On my trackday car I still want to mount a front splitter to improve the cooling. From hearsay it helps a bit in downforce, but also improves the cooling as it forces more air through the oil cooler/radiator. 

Maybe something to consider before you remove the skid plate. 

 

Any pics maybe from you current setup?

 

Maybe 1 detail to consider; if you are measuring the oil in the sump, you are measuring the temperature from the oil that returns from the engine.

The temperature that goes into the engine will first go through the oil cooler, so will be cooler than the reading on the dash. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by wicked

[SweetBadger 91]

18 hours ago, wicked said:

Which radiator is that? 

Radtec (same company that make the baker bm 60mm short radiators).

 

10 inch spal sits on the back of it - radtec added some mounting points

 

It’s standard height, but I’ve lowered the cross member that it sits on to give airflow to the itbs.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

26 minutes ago, SweetBadger said:

Radtec (same company that make the baker bm 60mm short radiators).

 

 

Good info...  Was looking at the short version as well and is 40 quid cheaper on their website.

 

Do the add the mounting points for the spal as standard on the OEM sized one? 

[SweetBadger 91]

I ordered the std (40mm core) one, and told them my application. They changed it to a 50mm core and added the fan mounts where I specified for no additional charge. Great service!

 

only issue is they have the dims for the AC radiator which is about 10mm shorter than the non AC one. I’d confirm dims with them for a std one.

[joris_andriesse 8]

On 5/24/2022 at 9:16 AM, SweetBadger said:

It’s standard height, but I’ve lowered the cross member that it sits on to give airflow to the itbs.

Do you have by any chance more pictures of how you made that?
I'm in the same proces as Rolf is in,  but will be using a standard sized rad instead of a lowered one.

[SweetBadger 91]

On 5/23/2022 at 2:55 PM, mmt said:

oilcooler is similar to the one in your pic above. Also placed (in front of) close to the water rad(standard gti size). 
 

no cowling though. 
 

I turned my fan on for the entire race dermed to work right. 
 

would an Air duct to the oilfilter do any good (easy instalment!). 

 

Cowling might help ensure air goes through the rad instead of around it, the fan won't be doing anything useful once the car is moving at speed so I wouldn't bother switching it on all the time.

 

Just re-read and I see your water temp is ok 85-90, so in your case a bigger / more efficient radiator is unlikely to help.

 

How are you measuring the oil temperature? Seems to be heating up very quickly if its at 130+ degrees after only 4 laps.

[SweetBadger 91]

5 hours ago, joris_andriesse said:

Do you have by any chance more pictures of how you made that?
I'm in the same proces as Rolf is in,  but will be using a standard sized rad instead of a lowered one.

Sure - nothing special.

 

- Chopped the front cross member out 

- Cut the fan attachments from the std cowl

- Cut some slots in the cowling to accommodate the oil cooler mounting brackets, and riveted some metal brackets to the plastic to bolt it to.

- Lowered the cross member and re-attached it with some 3mm aluminium brackets, aluminium soldered (I can't weld) to some thinner stuff to make the side pieces that meet the cowling.

- Brackets were riveted and tiger sealed in place.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by SweetBadger

[mmt 14]

4 hours ago, SweetBadger said:

How are you measuring the oil temperature? Seems to be heating up very quickly if its at 130+ degrees after only 4 laps.

Simple sensor in the sump. Think main culprit is the skid plate preventing hot Air to escape from the engine department.