Jump to content
  • Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com!

    Hello dear visitor! Feel free to browse but we invite you to register completely free of charge in order to enjoy the full functionality of the website.

Arthur

Upwards pointing wishbones

Recommended Posts

Arthur
Posted (edited)

Gents. Having read the "how to not mod your suspension" again since a few years I was wondering about something. Last step in my project is the suspension and this is coming near now. I have B6 with eibach sprins. Took the 206 ones because I have the kinda heavy TU5TP4s, but that was quite high. Changed to the 205 springs and it looks good now. But the wishbones are about horizontal. Maybe even slightly upwards. 

 

I've seen the interesting option to lower the pivot point on the hubs. Since i also need/want to upgrade to 82mm hubs, that might be a 3 bird one stone thing i could do. I might be able to change to 82mm bearing, add camber and solve the wishbone angle.

 

But what about the other pivot point in the subframe? Would it be possible to change this pivot point say 20mm upwards and 20mm outwards. Would that change the geometry much more than lowering the pivot point at the hub? 

 

This idea is a little bit fed by the fact 1.9 hubs are rare as rocking horse poop here and changing these kind of things might give me the opportunity to get 306 hubs and maybe even shafts, or 206 shafts. If I have to change relative big things, I might as well add a little more to compensate for the 306 camber lost from 306 hubs. 

Edited by Arthur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

Is this a race car? I wouldn't get hung up about the angle. It's more important to get the geometry correct. I'd definitely change to 306 hubs but more importantly make some adjustable wishbones, that give both camber and caster adjustment. This can only be done be cutting off the rear arm pickup points and welding them back on at an angle. You need to add caster and heaps of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur
Posted (edited)

Hi

 

No, not a racer, so huge camber is not needed. I was just thinking to go to the big CV's and 266 discs with 306 hubs. on 1.6 shafts now.... 

 

And then addressing the camber loss from the hubs, but while I'm at it I might just as well go a bit beyond going back to standard camber. 1,5 - 2 degree-ish seems nice for a non racer to me. And since I would need other shafts anyway, I would also just as well go 306 shafts since 309 is also rare and 306 are + 20mm afaik. 

 

If the rear point needs to be welded on at angle one might just as well start with a non gti subframe, right? I thought this roll centre thing was a big issue. A roll centre kit might just as well be an option. I have a lathe and a tig welder, so making something would be no rocket science for me. might even put caster in the mix then. Custom (adjustable) wishbones also should be doable for me. Personally I would opt for a compbrake type solution but with L or even H beam in the mix. (If I would have to design myself)  My mom knows and I will bend easier than an L !

 

Just after the best bang for buck (and labour) here. 

Edited by Arthur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

Compbrake arms are rubbish and fail easily. Tubular is the way to go. Adding caster increases camber when you turn. I'd aim for -1.5 camber and +4 caster. You can modify the GTi frame quite easily. Have a look at Satchell engineering for inspiration. There are heaps of photos on FB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur

Yes, I've seen the Satchell solution. Looks nice. Tubular might even be easier. Just make sure to drill and tap the thread after welding is what my gut is telling me. I'll google a bit more. Tubular with balljoint also makes life far easier to make a roll center extension piece. And for that matter, even 306 hubs with 18mm pins would do if I'd take that route. Stronger even i'd say. I'd would not know how the yearly checkup in the Netherlands would feel when they see those kind of parts though. I'l ask around here. 

 

Id rather have a second subframe to work on while the mine is still under the car. And since gti subframes are going for 5 times the value of non gti I would prefer to mod a non gti. Noted about the camber and caster!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur

One thing I did forget to mention. I have only one thing against tubular wishbones. That is it's so obvious they're not standard, and I still need safety checks every 2 years. Every noob can see they are aftermarket. And I think an modified subframe, well welded and painted, will not be seen by the surveyor. But they will never see the diff between 306 and 205 parts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

True, they may not be road legal. I guess modifying the standard pickups will get you in the range, but you'll still need to move the top of the strut and fit longer driveshafts, lengthen the originals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur

Thanks Joris

 

@Petert. If I do go down the subframe route, I'm opting to take an non gti and cut of the front pivots also completely. Then take an 2 u profiles and put that in the frame front and rear pivots. Obviously they would need a big cutout for the beams of the subframe and the sump, but I'd keep the u beam intact as far as possible until after welding it to the frame. That would insure the pivots align properly. Then cutout the rest where the sump is. If I manage to keep a small L section in the front beam, id have a lower brace in the process. Easy to add a brace if not.

 

I could indeed choose to add caster while I'm at it. In fact I think I must add caster, otherwise the arb would hit the rear pickup if it's more out. Pivots 20mm out AND somewhat to the front at the same time might just solve that. or I need to bin the arb. Since I only have the b6's and billsteins, I think I can't go without front arb. I reccon that's too much for a non- racer. I have a 106 24mm arb in the shed for the rear I first want to try. Put that in, try with front arb and with disconnected front arb first and see what the roll/oversteer is like first. (At the moment I have a lot of inner wheel wheelspin but the understeer is not huge)

 

 

I might as well take u-beams that are too wide for the wishbones and put some rings in the mix to be able to re-adjust some caster after the welding. Otherwise this "route" will fix whatever I choose to take for camber and caster. I'll try and source 306 hubs first also. I might as well make tubulars if it's indeed no problem. I'll ask the "guy" when I bring it this afternoon.

 

I very dirty moc to show what I mean:

 

 

280395733_5115311478547937_6777748888520

Edited by Arthur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur

It there no info on the camber of 206/206 hubs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

No idea about 206 hubs, sorry.

 

I don't run a front ARB, as it interferes with rear tubular arm. If you have enough rear ARB and torsion bar, you don't need one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arthur

Mot (apk) “guy” confirms they only look at play. Government (rdw) is another story. So when I go tubular I must first register the engine at rdw and then go tubular. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×