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petert

Oil Pumps

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petert

There is a saying, "always learning". I thought I had my head around XU oil pumps, until today. I was asked to modify a T16 XU10J4TE oil pump. I never knew they were different. Look at the size of those gears on the T16 pump on the left, compared to an XU10J4 pump on the right. The pump body is bigger and longer. According to the parts book, the XU10J2TE has the same pump, 1001 66.

T16 oil pump.jpg

Edited by petert
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Thijs_Rallye

The "big" pump was also used in the 2.1 XUDTs. I am using this one in my 1.9 to "solve" my sh*te hot idle oil pressure, which is perfect now (with Motul 0W40 X-max oil). 

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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welshpug

whats the gearing difference?

 

oh and I guess there is a difference in the length of the rotors?

Edited by welshpug

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Thijs_Rallye

I've got some sh*tty measurements where you can roughly estimate the differences. I don't have pictures of the gears and measurements at hand since my phone had crashed back then and fubar'd my SD card. (losing most of my part resto-pics as well)

 

The gears are larger in diameter and longer. In the pictures below you can see the differences, transferring the outer dimensions from one pump to the other. It is a straigh-ish swap, I had to adapt the constella baffles a bit and remove some webbing in the bottom of the aluminium Mi16 oil pan.

 

Both use the same 6 bar oil spring and oil pressure relieve piston.

 

1632304490583.jpg

1632304490622.jpg

1632304490662.jpg

1632304490544.jpg

Edited by Thijs_Rallye
added some more info
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DamirGTI

Interesting , i've one 2.0T engine here waiting for the "clown act" breaking the law at least for one year fun only ! .. till now in semi disassembled state .

 

What's the benefit of having/fitting that pump instead of the OE 1.6/1.9 8v item ?

Pump just shifts volume , pressure is mainly crank bearings/internal moving parts clearance right ?

 

D

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sosic2121
3 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Interesting , i've one 2.0T engine here waiting for the "clown act" breaking the law at least for one year fun only ! .. till now in semi disassembled state .

 

What's the benefit of having/fitting that pump instead of the OE 1.6/1.9 8v item ?

Pump just shifts volume , pressure is mainly crank bearings/internal moving parts clearance right ?

 

D

Maybe T16 turbocharger needs lots of oil for cooling?

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DamirGTI

Understandably so if turbo ... but was wondering for the 8v NA engine as an "upgrade" .

 

Personally , never had oil pressure issues on an 8v NA engine , if the engine was/is mechanically healthy .

0w-40 tri-synthetic oil sounds a bit overkill for an old engine design like the XU ! though , it is , the only real "man made synthetic" .

 

 

D

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SRDT

I read somewhere that it was also sold by Peugeot Sport for Gr.A racing with a Peugeot Sport part number sticker on top of the original packaging.

It seems that some 2.0 HDI pump was also used later.

 

Others special XU pumps that I know are the one from the XU10J4RS with a gasket in the middle and the mysterious one from the 309 GTI16 since 11/1992, not sure what is special about this one but it should be Peugeot's last attempt to fight oil starvation on the XU9J4.

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DamirGTI
11 minutes ago, SRDT said:

Peugeot's last attempt to fight oil starvation on the XU9J4.

 

I know and had driven one of those from the 309 GTI16 , was kinda freshly rebuilt with all the new OE parts at the time too .. guess what - blown/thrown the rod few months after @ 5-th lap on a track !

Still to this day , we're unsure if it was the oil starvation , or the guy who did the rebuild (f***d up something while assembling and torquing bottom end) ... it was a bit dull/flat performing when i tried test driving it though , felt like something isn't right .

 

D

Edited by DamirGTI

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petert

More volume is always good. However, power = flow x pressure, so it takes more power to drive the pump. So unless you need the extra volume for a turbo, probably unwarranted.

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mmt

Very interesting indeed. 
 

can the “bigger” pump be bought somewhere?

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petert

I wouldn't buy a new one. You rarely see a worn oil pump.

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Thijs_Rallye
13 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Pump just shifts volume , pressure is mainly crank bearings/internal moving parts clearance right ?

Correct.

9 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Personally , never had oil pressure issues on an 8v NA engine , if the engine was/is mechanically healthy .

Well, my idle pressure wasn't what it's supposed to be according to the spec sheet, when revved up it was ok. Since I didn't want to grenade the engine and I could obtain this pump I thought give it a go :).

9 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

0w-40 tri-synthetic oil sounds a bit overkill for an old engine design like the XU

The pump flows so much that I was worried when using a 10W oil I would blow out the crank seals. Cold pressure with 0W is around 8/9 bar. I've tried a 5W40 before the 0W but since the price difference was marginal I decided to use the Motul 0W40 oil. Motul has always served me well in my motorbikes.

 

10 hours ago, SRDT said:

It seems that some 2.0 HDI pump was also used later

Do you have a part number by any chance? Would be interesting to see if this is the same pump as the XUD11T

 

Btw, the additional chain guard and baffle are a good bonus on the big pump.

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DamirGTI
6 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Btw, the additional chain guard and baffle are a good bonus on the big pump.

What ? yet another possible "upgrade make yourself dirty" !!

 

I'm off to nature , to pick some mushrooms for a change who knows some of them might be "upgrade" on it's own without the "dirty" B)

 

D

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SRDT
14 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Do you have a part number by any chance? Would be interesting to see if this is the same pump as the XUD11T

Nope, no part number. Unless it was from the early DW10TD they probably changed the oil pickup for a XU or 30° DW one so no direct match with a regular part number.

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pug_ham

I've recently found a batch of old oil pups from various XU engines & I know one should be from a DW10 hdi so to pick it out of the pile, externally on the pump body I'm looking for a fatter & deeper housing where the gears are sat internally?

 

If I find one with this, I'll strip it down to look at the insides.

 

g

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petert

Yes, as per the pics above, the casting area which houses the spur gears is longer and bigger in diameter. It’s pretty obvious if you have an XU9 pump to compare with.

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pug_ham

Thanks  @petert, that what I thought. 

 

I'm stripping another hdi engine for the crank & pump so I'll compare that one with the pic's above too, all the pumps I have are XU5/9 bar one that is from a hdi.

 

g

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Elieser Leandro

    After a few hours looking for information about the large gear pump I just found discovered the following: 

  

 

Universal code: 943129 10 21. Which  came on volvo, peugeot, citroen and ford both diesel engines. The small gears pump the universal code is 943129 20 21.

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welshpug

Sounds like dw10/12 pumps.

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SRDT

Another thing that is special about the XU10J4RS pump (aside from the gasket) can be seen here:

Excess oil from the relief valve isn't going back to the inlet side but directly out of the pump. I'm not sure how it is better but they did it.

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