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K20205

Long pedal travel before brakes bite

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K20205

My 205 has very long pedal travel before the brakes start biting, its a 1.6gti without any brake compensators, its full braided lines from front to back with a wilwood bias valve mounted next to the gear shifter.

i bled the system twice with new brake fluid still no luck, then i replaced the mc with a brand new one and rebled it using gunson brake bleeder kit, it got a little better but the pedal still has long travel,

the rear drums are adjusted correctly too.

 

i dont know the history behind the car but can there be a chance the brake booster adjustments might have been tampered with?

i also get a hissing sound when the pedal is pushed..

 

 

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Ozymandis

The hissing sound is normal.

 

If Your shoe adjusters are adjusted up, I suggest You double check the bore diameter of the master cylinder, You may have  one from a different 205 model which have a smaller bore and so you have to push further to move the same amount of fluid.

 

The first thing I would check would be the shoe adjusters though, they give the exact thing Your describing when they are wrongly adjusted. make sure the lefts on the left and the rights on the right, or they adjust off not on.

Edited by Ozymandis

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K20205

This is the master cylinder I bought,

so the adjusters screw side needs to face the left for left side And right for the right side?

 

can they be fitted wrong way round?

188205E5-A938-4A2B-8587-EC9F65C22FBE.png

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Ozymandis

That is the correct master cylinder bore diameter for 1.6 GTi brakes.

 

The rear adjusters are not the same one is the left and one is the right.

 

It is possible to mix them up and fit them to the incorrect side.

 

They have opposite handed threads one unscrews clockwise and the other anti-clockwise.

 

Make sure they are on the correct side or they back the adjustment off and give long pedal travel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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K20205

Cheers mate, ill try have a look this week sometime and take pictures too..

 

would removing the compensators cause any problem? Because when i got the car there weren't any fitted.

 

do should i set the rear shoes? With the handbrake down and cable slack taken or loosen cable from handbrake side and adjust when the shoes have been set?

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Ozymandis

The compensators to stop the rear wheels locking up under heavy braking, which can lead to a spin. Your Willwood  should do this function.

 

All back brake farting about is done with the handbrake off/down and cables loose, the cable compensators adjustment nut is then tightened up for the correct number of ratchet clicks on the lever last thing.

 

Dont use too few ratchet clicks on the handbrake lever, it doesnt allow the mechanisms to physically move far enough and operate the automatic adjusters if You do.

 

I think its 6 clicks before the shoes first start to grip/bind on the drum, but look that up to be sure.

 

Its obvious if the adjusters work the first couple of goes with the pedal and lever when You have finished working on the brakes ,they make an obvious clicking/ratchetting noise "clllllllllllck"

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K20205

Theres a little metal tab which sits ontop of the adjusters and my one doesnt seem to make any contact with the adjuster screw? Would that be the reason why the auto adjuster is not working.?

 

 

D073FA7D-97A3-499E-99C2-2488A784646C.jpeg

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PhilNW

The back plate looks a bit wet is the slave cylinder leaking?

 

RE the adjuster not making contact with the screw, think there is supposed to be a type of spacer on the rivet in the shoe under the adjuster.

 

See the little star washer on the diagram below

 

https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Peugeot/205/83-97/205 1.6 GTI & CTI Injection/Rear - Brake Pads and Shoes/BBA198

 

 

Edited by PhilNW

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Ozymandis

Is that a picture of Your actual brake or just a picture to illustrate your point?

 

The hydraulic cylinders dropped its guts and the brake linings are useless now.

 

Get a kit such as this it has everything

 

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2195036

 

 

 

 

 

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K20205
13 minutes ago, Ozymandis said:

Is that a picture of Your actual brake or just a picture to illustrate your point?

 

The hydraulic cylinders dropped its guts and the brake linings are useless now.

 

Get a kit such as this it has everything

 

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2195036

 

 

 

 

 

No this isnt mine, its just to show the metal tab.

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Ozymandis

There is supposed to be an internally  toothed convex spring steel retaining washer forced down over the roll pin, this  holds the spring steel ratchet pawl  (metal tab) in intimate contact with the teeth on the adjuster nut.

 

When the handbrake is operated the pawl  pivots on the roll pin and if theres enough free movement it ramps up and clicks over one tooth on the nut which winds the shoes out to take up the slack. Hence not over tensioning the handbrake cables, you need the whole lot to move a fair bit to cycle the adjuster.

 

Your non working adjusters give the long pedal Your asking about.

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PhilNW
45 minutes ago, K20205 said:

No this isnt mine, its just to show the metal tab.

Can you put a photo of yours up?

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K20205

I just made a quick video of the brake booster, is the pin ment to be loose as mine has some in and out play also it looks like when i fit the master cylinder the pin get push back in as the rod is too long?

 

is this all normal? 

 

 

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K20205

Just had the time to check my brakes and the passenger side has one spring missing,

also the cylinder moves around? I this normal?

i can push on either side and it will move around.


3B4A22CD-BC4B-479D-A845-4B88CC4B27C0.thumb.jpeg.c979e3391ecddf30af6d30cbe9f76cc1.jpegAA88F5D9-303B-47C6-9AB6-56D8D187D989.thumb.jpeg.a76b0c2a3fa6994bbfa65c15b1e1bcb2.jpeg

 

 

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Ozymandis

You have 2 other parts missing in Your photos. There is a sprung "starlock" washer missing from both sides.

 

Where the auto adjuster ratchet mechanisms pawls are pivoting on a roll pin in the leading shoes web, there should be a washer to hold the pawl down into mesh with the ratchet teeth, they are essential for a reliable action with the auto adjusters.

 

You can see it in this drawing on the right hand assembly.

 

Thats not a GTi in the drawing, a base model is shown it has the same adjusters.

thumb.jpeghttps://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2211273

 

 

The vertical spring on the R/H side is fitted wrongly, its lower end should be inserted through the hole in the shoe web from the back not the front, also, the one fitted bottom spring, should be fitted at the back of the shoe webs not the front.

Install all springs as in the above drawing.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2211273

Get a fitting kit similar to this  

 

Finally it looks like the adjusters are on the wrong sides, DOUBLE CHECK, the angle of the photo is wrong to be sure,and Im going blind too.

 

Your adjusters DONT work, You have a LONG pedal.                             

Edited by Ozymandis

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K20205
7 hours ago, Ozymandis said:

You have 2 other parts missing in Your photos. There is a sprung "starlock" washer missing from both sides.

 

Where the auto adjuster ratchet mechanisms pawls are pivoting on a roll pin in the leading shoes web, there should be a washer to hold the pawl down into mesh with the ratchet teeth, they are essential for a reliable action with the auto adjusters.

 

You can see it in this drawing on the right hand assembly.

 

Thats not a GTi in the drawing, a base model is shown it has the same adjusters.

thumb.jpeghttps://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2211273

 

 

The vertical spring on the R/H side is fitted wrongly, its lower end should be inserted through the hole in the shoe web from the back not the front, also, the one fitted bottom spring, should be fitted at the back of the shoe webs not the front.

Install all springs as in the above drawing.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/trw/2211273

Get a fitting kit similar to this  

 

Finally it looks like the adjusters are on the wrong sides, DOUBLE CHECK, the angle of the photo is wrong to be sure,and Im going blind too.

 

Your adjusters DONT work, You have a LONG pedal.                             

Your right those adjuster look like they've been fitted on wrong sides.

if i put any starlock washer it should hold right?

also with the wheel cylinders one seems to be wrong? Looks like the passenger side one is shorter and its not making contact with the shoes.

 

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Ozymandis

The RH wheel cylinders leaking, throw it away and put a new one in and then they will behave the same.

 

Dismantle each adjuster and clean then lubricate the threads before re assembly, dont mix up the parts they are different.

 

All Your questions have been covered in all the previous posts within this thread.

 

My advice is the same as it always was, bin the lot and put a kit in. The end!

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K20205
13 hours ago, Ozymandis said:

The RH wheel cylinders leaking, throw it away and put a new one in and then they will behave the same.

 

Dismantle each adjuster and clean then lubricate the threads before re assembly, dont mix up the parts they are different.

 

All Your questions have been covered in all the previous posts within this thread.

 

My advice is the same as it always was, bin the lot and put a kit in. The end!

I ordered a fitting kit and two new cylinders,

are 19mm cylinders correct? Without pressure valves? 
this week everything should arrive i hope this was my problem all along.

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Ozymandis

Yes those are the cylinders You need, they are identical and can be used either side.

 

Your shoes look fine.

 

Its the first thing to check with a long pedal.

 

Have a Merry Christmas And a short pedalled New Year.

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