Motronic 3.1 using jetronic lambda wiring.

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

20 hours ago, SRDT said:

The non cat D6E XU9JAK ZX Volcane MP3.1 ECU should be 0 261 200 212. 

You can't simply look for any ZX 1.9i ECU as the cat DKZ XU9JAZ ZX was using the older ML1.3 ECU with distributor and AFM.

So if I understand this (and the rest of the thread) correctly, the D6E XU9JAK does not have closed loop lambda control?

[SRDT 146]

That's right. No closed loop lambda for the XU9JA and XU9J2.

[309jazzpanda 39]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:19 PM, pug_ham said:

 

That's the ecu I have on mine;

 

 

Might be fun finding one but Wayne should have the original data from mine when he did my remap (all those years ago) if he's willing to part with it but he could also mod your ecu to suit & burn you a new chip from the original bin file.

 

g

This is what I'm thinking I may end up doing as the correct ZX ECU seems a little hens teeth.

Unfortunately the system is wired in waiting on parts now but I doubt I'll get chance to get the car up there before next year. 

On 9/27/2020 at 5:23 PM, SRDT said:

The non cat D6E XU9JAK ZX Volcane MP3.1 ECU should be 0 261 200 212.

You can't simply look for any ZX 1.9i ECU as the cat DKZ XU9JAZ ZX was using the older ML1.3 ECU with distributor and AFM.

If you put a MP3.1 ZX chip inside a MP3.1 BX ECU it should most likely work fine as long as you have the right injectors but the .bin file from the ZX seems pretty hard to find.

Thank you for the heads up, that has saved me from any future issues.

[SRDT 146]

On 9/27/2020 at 6:23 PM, SRDT said:

the .bin file from the ZX seems pretty hard to find.

I found one for free on the web, and if it looks like the real deal.

On a 8 bit Motronic file you can find the (reversed) ECU part number in ASCII. It's at  #1F02 here and it's the right one.

_original_files_extra_bonus_citroen_zx_volcane_0261200212-1267356621-_4ddc_.std

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:05 PM, SRDT said:

That's right. No closed loop lambda for the XU9JA and XU9J2.

Also no closed loop for the XU9JAK then? I am considering switching to the MP3.1 but if this has no closed loop lambda control it is of no use to me since I like to keep using my wideband feedback.

[SRDT 146]

No "real" closed loop but you can use it at idle.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

On 10/2/2020 at 10:42 AM, 309jazzpanda said:

Unfortunately the system is wired in waiting on parts now but I doubt I'll get chance to get the car up there before next year. 

Give Wayne a call or email, you might be able to send him your ecu for him to swap the chip over to the ZX one.

 

I'll have a look through my boxes but I think I sold my spare ZX ecu when someone else was doing this swap.

 

g

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I've just looked on ATP electronics might have one but they aren't exactly cheap.

 

g

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

22 hours ago, SRDT said:

No "real" closed loop but you can use it at idle.

In that case it is not worth the hassle for me converting my car to MP3.1, the wasted spark would definitely be a bonus but missing the closed loop lambda control is too big of a loss for me. Then I'll stick to the M1.3 :).

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

There's one one eBay from Spain for under £100.

 

g

[SRDT 146]

31 minutes ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

I'll stick to the M1.3 :).

If you have a ML1.3 you should look for a MP3.2, they are both 55 pin and the wiring is pretty close.

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

54 minutes ago, SRDT said:

If you have a ML1.3 you should look for a MP3.2, they are both 55 pin and the wiring is pretty close. 

MP3.2 is the tct right?

[SRDT 146]

TCT and also ACAV.

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

3 minutes ago, SRDT said:

TCT and also ACAV.

Hmmm. It would be interesting comparing the dumps from both to see how the COP vs wasted spark is configured if the ECU platform is similar.

[welshpug 1,622]

MP3.2 on the S16 is probably not too dissimilar, it is sequential spark I believe, two ignition amps and 4 coils, amp is the same twin input/output type as the wasted spark, has a cam sensor,  I'm not sure if they are sequential injection.

[309jazzpanda 39]

On 10/4/2020 at 12:29 PM, pug_ham said:

There's one one eBay from Spain for under £100.

 

g

Absolute legend, just bought it.

I'd not had time to search for the last few days so you've saved me a massive head ache there. 

Good news the leads and clutch turned up today so if the weather could just be a little nicer this weekend I'll get it all tied up and finished. 

 

Tempted to keep the BX ECU for the future, I intend to fit a cam etc to a spare engine one day so may use the BX ECU for the remap. 

[309jazzpanda 39]

Well the ZX ECU turned up in record time and arrived yesterday so that's all in and sorted. Found that my dash has a K light in so dug out my old bulbs (checked it worked first)  and boshed it in. Quick question, looking in the 309 Haynes wiring diagram it shows the K light should be wire 15/15a, so I did a quick continuity test and it matches up on the board. Is it really as simple as hooking the ECU K light wire wire into wire 15 of the loom and it should work?. I did a quick (twist the wires together) test and flicked the ignition on but got no light coming on. Now either this means I'm missing something or I have no faults in the system. 

Is this correct?. I remember there being a thread in here showing how to wire it up but I cannot for the life of me find it anywhere.

[welshpug 1,622]

the light should come on with ignition and go off when running unless its indicating a fault.

[SRDT 146]

Page 87 (labelled 82 in the document)

https://issuu.com/lamicale309/docs/schemas_electriques_309

 

It should be better than the Haynes diagram.

[petert 550]

On 10/5/2020 at 8:19 AM, welshpug said:

MP3.2 on the S16 is probably not too dissimilar, it is sequential spark I believe, two ignition amps and 4 coils, amp is the same twin input/output type as the wasted spark, has a cam sensor,  I'm not sure if they are sequential injection.

Yes, MP3.2 is full sequential fuel and direct fire. The ignition amps are dual channel.

[309jazzpanda 39]

10 hours ago, SRDT said:

Page 87 (labelled 82 in the document)

https://issuu.com/lamicale309/docs/schemas_electriques_309

 

It should be better than the Haynes diagram.

Brilliant, that is better as now I know ECU puts out earth rather than live. God stuff I'll get that buttoned up tonight. 

[SRDT 146]

15 hours ago, petert said:

Yes, MP3.2 is full sequential fuel and direct fire. The ignition amps are dual channel.

On the 8v turbo there is a coil pack and no cam sensor so this one isn't sequential.

[309jazzpanda 39]

Massive thank you everyone for the help. Got the clutch and flywheel in on Monday night and it fired up beautifully, it's never ran as well as it does now. Motronic is a definite must for anyone wanting to upgrade their old jetronic system. Now on to all of the other jobs before I can get it back on the road.

[309jazzpanda 39]

Evening all, time to necro the thread rather than start a new one.

I am having a small issue with the Motronic 3.1 (well actually it has been an issue since I fitted it) in that the idle CO is absolutely sky high sitting at 13% on the gas tester, apply some revs and it comes down dramatically but no throttle input and it's 13%, It also idles badly/lumpy.

So I have been back through the thread and the loom to check a few things, first made sure pin9 had been split (On this loom pin 9 goes to both throttle body and CO pot but I had removed the CO pot section of wiring so all good), next made sure pin 8 is 0v earth, yep spot on. Found an issue with the heater side 12v, plug was corroded so new super seal plug fitted and all good, same for earth on heater side. Carried out a continuity test on the heater side and this is spot on.  Pin 24 (signal) I believe is wave form but put a DMM across it anyway. Ignition on it's 0.4V but again without scoping no idea if it is reading correctly, same with idling 0.4v.

What I do find odd though is if I disconnect the Lambda sensor the "K" light does not illuminate, disconnect any other sensor and the light illuminates showing an issue but nothing when disconnecting lambda, is this normal? I am wondering if the ECU isn't seeing the sensor which would explain the mental CO % I am experiencing on idle.

 

If this IS the case then I am at a bit of a wall, just to add temp sensor (ECU not gauge) is brand new. I am tempted to get a universal Bosch lambda sensor to try it but I would have thought if there was an issue it would flag the K light?.

 

You guys have already helped so much but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks, Andy.

[DamirGTI 323]

Tried testing if the O2 sensor heats up via inbuilt heater element ?

 

Engine cold , unscrew the O2 from the exhaust but leave it connected , turn ignition ON and (carefully) try with you're fingers - is it heating up or not ..

 

D