MOT emission Test

[PhilNW 40]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:05 PM, Telf said:

Steering rack seal fitted. No difference.

 

 

Think you have more investigation to do, the fundamental problem is that some smell or fumes are getting into the cabin in particular circumstances. not a good situation.

 

Exactly what to you mean by exhaust smell, carbon monoxide, petrol, oil fumes (due to blocked breather?) , something burning off due to heat?

 

 

[Zetec7 4]

Just a thought Phil, have you tried covering up the vents into the rear quarter's.

The ones inside the door jams at the back off the doors.

Also just try extending the exhaust a foot with a bit of pipe just to see if it makes a difference.  

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

to me it just smells like exhaust, i noticed yesterday that on a windy day you cant smell it on a trip to the shop, when you turn around and come back you can , so it would seem its literally the exhaust i can smell circulating into the cabin when the windows open. 

[welshpug 1,621]

do you have the seal on the bonnet?

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

2 minutes ago, welshpug said:

do you have the seal on the bonnet?

yep. brand new. Also With the fan on full you get nothing coming in via the fan inlet with the windows shut. just smells normal fresh air so its not coming from the bonnet seal area

[jackherer 543]

What is the bulkhead grommet for the engine wiring loom like? I can't remember what you used for that?

[petert 549]

Why don't you buy a wideband kit (with a gauge) and hook it up independently of the ECU for now. Drive around for a while keep an eye on the AFR's. You can ditch the gauge and hook it up to the ECU later, hopefully with the aim of controlling closed loop AFR's at cruise. Many widebands are CAN bus only now. It sounds like you need one with a 0-5V output.

Edited May 25, 2020 by petert

[welshpug 1,621]

thats what the aem has, 0-5v with gauge, controller is housed in the gauge.

 

might also have a can output but its been a while since reading the instructions when installing.

[petert 549]

I really meant a gauge you can disconnect. Once you have AFR's set up and controlled, who wants another gauge flashing at you? Too bling for me.

 

eg PLX, which you can monitor on a phone.

Edited May 25, 2020 by petert

[jackherer 543]

We have done that in the past!

 

I put my wideband in the tail pipe and initially I got very unstable false lean readings that were due to exhaust leaks at the backbox and manifold (both sides)

 

After the exhaust leaks were fixed it went back to Emerald to be mapped for a second time. But Paul is still complaining about a fuel smell.

 

The wideband kits available now seem to either be a controller and sensor for about £160 or a controller built into a gauge and a sensor for only about £15 more so the one with a gauge seems like the best idea to me. I suggested to Paul that he hide the gauge in the glove box or somewhere once it is not in regular use.

[petert 549]

This is the unit of was thinking of. It has 0-5V (wide) and 0-1V (narrow) outputs. Seems good value at US$170 on special.

 

https://www.plxdevices.com/SM-AFR-Gen4-Wideband-AFR-with-MultiGauge-Link-p/897346002870.htm

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Peter, I like the idea of that smart phone unit but id probably get nicked messing with my phone! i think I'll go for an innovate unit with a gauge, as Kieran says It can be stashed in the glove box and velcro it or something to check whats going on.

 

One thing that i don't get about the whole Alpha-N method of setting up/running the engine is that there seems to be no positive feedback to me, you are relying on everything being ok as per the day you had it tuned/setup. I know the ECU is receiving air temp/water temp but it just doesn't seem the best method for a car you want to be driveable in all condtions- What am i missing here?

 

If you have a wideband lambda sensor set to dynamic or closed loop (not sure which?!?) operation surely that will provide better control of the fueling in real world driving? 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Telf

[petert 549]

Normally you'd have it setup for something like this:
idle - 13.5:1

<60% throttle 14.7:1 closed loop

60-80% 14.4:1 open loop

full load 13:1 open loop

Thus it should auto correct in closed loop mode for anything above idle and <60%. 

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Peter,

 

I spoke to one of the techs at Emerald who said that i wouldn't need to remap/rolling road the car - so i presume this would be done via the software?

 

as i say the whole Alpha N thing perplexes me to some degree, the lambda input just seems a sensible idea

[petert 549]

Sorry, you'll need to educate me on what Alpha N is. I'm just talking about what's coming out the tail pipe.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

2 hours ago, petert said:

you'll need to educate me on what Alpha N is

i think this pretty much sums it up

 

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/what-the-hell-is-alpha-n-tuning/

 

[Zetec7 4]

Paul I think you have got to go back to basics here. If your smelling exhaust only with the windows open then somehow its getting sucked back i from the back of the car. I know you have new seals but have you put strips of thin card around the boot seal then closed the boot  to see if in fact the seal is sealing all the way round.  Hate to see you spending money & time on a wide band only to have the same problem. Same with the quarter windows.

I had to drive my VRS with the hatch not quite closed once. 2 miles was the limit 

[Leslie green 81]

Have a check on rocker cover gasket ,I know it's new but as the engine is on a big slant in the bay it can be leaking down onto the exhaust manifold and be hard to spot .You low hc reading at idle is very impressive for a non cat car so I doubt there is much wrong with the engine, it isn't burning oil anyway !

Edited May 27, 2020 by Leslie green

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Hi Leslie. Defiantly not that , it's new and I sealed it with a smear of loctite

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

So I've got an AEM UEGO gauge and Bosch 4.9 sensor. 

 

I'm going to modify the exhaust this weekend and fit the wiring. Seems fairly simple 

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Ok so wideband fitted. It appears on warm idle to be about 14.5/6 AFR. Normal driving 15 ish. At 7mph fluctuating 15 to 16 and infact when I boot it about 16. So lean ?

 

At 30mph in fifth about 13.9.

 

It's not wired to the ECu yet as I ran out of time

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Second pic is cold start after initial for. First pic is after a 20 mind drive at idle when I got home

[jackherer 543]

Did it smell of fuel when you were seeing those readings?

[DamirGTI 323]

16 @ WOT ?! ... that's waaay too lean , and simply dangerous . Who ever did the mapping will need to correct this asap !!

 

It's as if it was set up backwards , from stoich at idle to progressively leaning out with the rev/load increase .

 

WOT need to be around 12.5/12.7 for best power and engine safety ... mid range is also lean by those numbers .

 

D

[jackherer 543]

Or it's got an exhaust leak, there is no way Emerald mapped it at 16:1!

 

None of these AFRs explains why it smells.

 

It's similar to when I checked it with my wideband in the tailpipe, it was reading excessively lean due to extra air leaking into the exhaust. When I sealed the exhaust the AFR readings returned to normal.