Supplimentary air device 205 gti

[Gregg1980 0]

Hi guys, just a quick question in regards to the SAD. I've been reading up and it says when cold the SAD should be fully open, as it looks in the pic attached there's only a small gap. I can poke a screwdriver through there and open it easily enough. 

 

So will this open open fully when the car is turned on and then gradually close once the car heats up?

 

I'm also having a bit trouble locating where the SAD gets bolted to, I've pinpointed out where I think it goes, under the distributor cap. What I don't get is that I've bought a new hose kit from Baker BM and there's no way the house is going to stretch from under the car to that point, or am I trying to attach the SAD to the wrong place (which seems like a bitch to get to) or am I missing something completely!!

 

Can the SAD be cleaned inside with a little bit degreaser?

 

Thanks for any info.

[Gregg1980 0]

Scrap the pipe not reaching part, reaches.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Your first picture shows the SAD fully open. It does not open to full bore. The amount of air needed to raise the engine speed when it is cold is only small. If the SAD did open to full bore the engine would probably rev to something like 3000rpm at a guess.

 

The SAD does bolt underneath roughly where you have shown, it is very awkward to get at. Mark the distributor position then remove it from the engine for better access. The SAD mounts "north-south" on the car, hose with the 180 deg bend in it should be on the rear of the SAD nearest the bulkhead. It is important the SAD is bolted down as intended as it uses the heat transferred from the engine/coolant to assist the small electrical coil inside to heat the bimetallic strip and close the valve off.

[Gregg1980 0]

Thank you, really appreciate your response 

[welshpug 1,627]

this image depicts reasonably well where they are located

[karabas 21]

I used to have same hose direction and too close to dizzy problems. I realized that not enough gap problem was came from missing mounting plate. First pic is the location of SAD. It was bolted directly to the head without plate. Second pic is the SAD mounting plate. I have Ph2 car so SAD bolted to plate, plate bolted to cylinder head. Mounting plate gives an angle to SAD and also gives a space between dizzy.

[karabas 21]

5 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

Your first picture shows the SAD fully open. It does not open to full bore. The amount of air needed to raise the engine speed when it is cold is only small. If the SAD did open to full bore the engine would probably rev to something like 3000rpm at a guess.

 

Mine is in same position when cold. I was thinking 2 pin connector supplies 12V to the SAD. First it should be fully open and it heats up and then SAD closes. Now I learn I'm wrong.
When it's hot enough, should it be totaly closed?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Yes when fully hot the valve shuts totally.

[DamirGTI 327]

Thermostat housing bolts onto that plate not the SAD directly .. as said above , SAD bolts underneath of the thermostat housing :

 

http://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/205N/0/03G50A.HTM

 

It uses both the heat from the coolant system (thermostat housing on which it bolts on) and 12v heater element , and it needs both to fully close the bimetallic disc inside the SAD after warm up period .

 

D

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Don't forget the differences between ph1/1.5 and ph2 cars. Ph 1/1.5 use the separate water housing, with SAD attached, linked to the stat housing with the "?" question mark shaped hose. Ph2 cars delete the separate water housing and the SAD bolts to the adaptor plate in the photo above. The ? shape hose is gone and instead there is a longer 1 piece hose that goes from the stat housing direct to the heater matrix. The Ph2 setup is undoubtedly neater and with less potential leaks or issues from hose joints.

[DamirGTI 327]

I see ... my bad !

 

Didn't know that , and it's been a while since i've seen a proper late Ph2 205 .

 

D

[Gregg1980 0]

I don't have the adaptor plate, but I don't think I need it then as mine is phase 1.5. Do you have any idea of the size of bolts/screws?

[karabas 21]

I have Ph2 car and this pic shows with plate mounting.

Thanks all clear for me now.

With new dizzy. (Damir you'll remember my problems  )

 

[DamirGTI 327]

Yes ! i do remember ..

 

Did you sort out that distributor issue in the end ?

 

D

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

6 minutes ago, Gregg1980 said:

I don't have the adaptor plate, but I don't think I need it then as mine is phase 1.5. Do you have any idea of the size of bolts/screws?

Your ph 1.5 car has a housing like this fitted (see picture borrowed off ebay)

The bracket bolts to the side of the stat housing

The bolts you can see loosely fitted sticking up are where the SAD goes.

[karabas 21]

You can bolt w/o plate but this time dizzy vacuum capsule touches SAD and vacuum hose bends.

All are M6.

in case of any need this is the plate dimensions.

[karabas 21]

2 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Yes ! i do remember ..

 

Did you sort out that distributor issue in the end ?

 

D

Finally , thanks God. I found that the ECU temp sensor was also faulty. Thank you and 205gtidrivers forum.

 

 

[Gregg1980 0]

Thought so, thanks Tom. Gonna have fun trying to get it on tomo

[DamirGTI 327]

13 minutes ago, karabas said:

Finally , thanks God. I found that the ECU temp sensor was also faulty. Thank you and 205gtidrivers forum.

 

 

 

So was faulty distributor and temp. sensor too ?

 

What happened with new "Mapco" distributor which you've ordered ? good or not good ?

 

D

[karabas 21]

I haven't received it yet. It's still with my friend in Germany and looks a bit more.
I found that car was ok in first 2-3 min when it's totally cold. But it took 3 weeks to realise. I can't figure out how to take off the sensor thus I connected a spare one and hanged to the bulk head. I guess I need a long neck 19mm socket wrench.

Sorry Gregg, I ruin your post.

[SootySport 23]

Here’s  a cleaner one   I’m holding the whole assembly upside down.

[Gregg1980 0]

Thanks SootySport. 

 

All good Karabas. Good we're getting answers, that's what it's all about.

[SootySport 23]

Before you fit it all back, you can do some more tests— 

Connect a meter across the 2 SAD terminals and the resistance is about 50 ohms.

Connect 12volts to the terminals and the hole inside the SAD will close up after 4 or 5 minutes.

[Gregg1980 0]

So I've put the SAD in, bolted it up and attached all hoses. Waited til the car has heated up (once the rad fan comes on) I've then adjusted the throttle idle position to around 900rpm. 

 

The idle is real lumpy now and when I'm driving it's like a kangaroo hahaha

 

I've clamped one of the hoses on the SAD once the car has warmed to see if it's maybe stuck open, but there's no change. Even when I turn the car on when cold I still need to keep my foot on the throttle. 

 

Here's the thing, the car came with a megasquirt ECU and had a cold idle start, we've since then tried to put the car back to original, original AFM, ECU, wiring loom and now the SAD. The problem I had before I attached the SAD was the car idling about 2200rpm once heated, also had to keep my foot on the throttle to warm her up to stop her from stalling. Now, I still need to keep my foot on the throttle to warm her up, but now only a quarter of the time, once heated she's stopped revving in the 2200rpm range and gotten real lumpy in the 900rpm range, so there has been a change. The very first time starting the car.omce installing the SAD it died straight away, started a 2nd time and gave the pedal a little juice, it then went up to 17-1800rpm for about 2 mins and then shot down to about 700rpm. Thing has a mind of it's own.

 

I hate this car at the moment. My mechanic has nearly given up as well.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

1 hour ago, Gregg1980 said:

I've then adjusted the throttle idle position to around 900rpm. 

 

How have you done this. If you have adjusted the throttle disc position you have done it wrong. You need to set the throttle disc position, set the throttle switch, then leave that position alone and adjust idle speed on the bypass screw.

 

TBH the Haynes manual describes well what to do so I'm not going to repeat it here. Its available as a free ripped pdf online if you have not got the book.