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ogi205gti

XU10J4/S16 upgrade engine

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ogi205gti

Hello everyone.
I am interested in your opinion on the following specifications for the XU10J4 engine.
First of all..
Intake manifold RFS
exhaust manifold RFS
Xsara vts motor installation
Intake Camshaft D6C
Lightweight flywheel
Crankshaft XU9D 88mm
Gearbox 205 1.6 gti

All of the above are pieces I would put on my s16.

Greetings from Banja Luka.

 
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B1ack_Mi16

The D6C camshaft is the same as the one you already have on the XU10J4 engine, so no point.

 

RFS exhaust manifold will not fit on the head, so you would need to either make an sort of adapter, but most likely cut off the flange and weld it to a suitable flange fitting the XU10J4 head.

 

 

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ogi205gti

Yes I know about RFS exhaust manifold. I already have a colleague revamped for xu10j4.
And I didn't know the cam was the same on the D6C and Xu10j4?

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Tom Fenton

Just out of interest, why does the RFS exhaust manifold not fit the XU10 head? I thought the bolt pattern was the same.

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ogi205gti

Here's a picture, you can see why.

Even when the engine is inserted into the car it needs to be revised because of the position of the exhaust manifold.

received_442256389740794.jpeg

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received_2254435588180328.jpeg

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B1ack_Mi16
7 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

Just out of interest, why does the RFS exhaust manifold not fit the XU10 head? I thought the bolt pattern was the same.

I'm not sure if the bolt pattern is the same, might well be (however for some reason I thought it was not). Main problem is that the ports are far too narrow so the exhaust ports will be partly blocked by the flange. Some kind of transition is required.

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ogi205gti

Yes, and the exhaust manifold position when put on the car does not graze because it is too close to the firewall and is not the same angle as on the rs engine.

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jackherer

Peter Taylor made a conversion plate to fit the XU10J4RS exhaust manifold to the XU9J4:

 

http://www.taylor-eng.com/conversion/conversion_parts.htm

 

The XU10J4 is 10mm higher and has ten studs rather than nine but is otherwise the same as the XU9J4.

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wicked
On 11/24/2019 at 11:04 AM, B1ack_Mi16 said:

The D6C camshaft is the same as the one you already have on the XU10J4 engine, so no point.

 

 

It terms of profile, it is the same, but there is a diff; the XU10J4 cam will have an extra hole to lube the vacuum pump. The D6C has the distributor there. 

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B1ack_Mi16
3 hours ago, wicked said:

It terms of profile, it is the same, but there is a diff; the XU10J4 cam will have an extra hole to lube the vacuum pump. The D6C has the distributor there. 

 

Indeed true, at least for 306 S16 XU10J4, which have the vacum pump. Not sure if the cams are machined for the pump drive and has the oil hole on the 405 XU10J4 engine which is not using vacum pump?

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ogi205gti

I have an RFT engine from a Citroen Xantia.
What do you think of those performances that I mentioned in the introduction? I would replace the exhaust with 309 gti16 if found.

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petert
5 hours ago, wicked said:

It terms of profile, it is the same, but there is a diff; the XU10J4 cam will have an extra hole to lube the vacuum pump. The D6C has the distributor there. 

There are indeed two XU10J4 versions of the inlet cam. The S16 version has the oil supply for the vacuum pump, which can be easily blanked off. The 405 version doesn't have the hole(s) as it doesn't have a vacuum pump.

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SRDT

The 309 gti16 manifod cracks easily and isn't easy to find so using a moded RFS manifold may be cheaper in the end.

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DamirGTI

Out of curiosity , for 2.0l MI16 , is it really that big of a difference (power gain) between the OE cast XU10J4 manifold and the RFS one ?!

 

Also OE cast XU10J4 manifold vs OE tubular XU9j4 (405 Mi16 not the 309 16v ) ? .. to make it worthwhile financial and difficulty fitment investment .

 

With the inlet manifold i can see why the RFS one with trumpets or aluminum XU9j4 will be better choice/gain more over OE 2.0l plastic ACAV item .

 

D

 

 

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jackherer
34 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Out of curiosity , for 2.0l MI16 , is it really that big of a difference (power gain) between the OE cast XU10J4 manifold and the RFS one ?!

Surprisingly enough yes it is!

 

I removed an aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold from a 2.0 S16 and temporarily refitted the cast iron OE part. Performance was much worse, I don't have figures but for it to be as noticeable as it was it must have been 10+ bhp lost.

 

I've done the same thing with a 1.9 Mi16 and I couldn't tell the difference. (aftermarket 4-2-1 to OE tubular 8-2-1)

 

On that subject has the OP considered an aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold? E.G. https://www.maniflow.co.uk/index.php?view=product&product=1469

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ogi205gti
50 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Out of curiosity , for 2.0l MI16 , is it really that big of a difference (power gain) between the OE cast XU10J4 manifold and the RFS one ?!

 

Also OE cast XU10J4 manifold vs OE tubular XU9j4 (405 Mi16 not the 309 16v ) ? .. to make it worthwhile financial and difficulty fitment investment .

 

With the inlet manifold i can see why the RFS one with trumpets or aluminum XU9j4 will be better choice/gain more over OE 2.0l plastic ACAV item .

 

D

 

 

I do not know. I haven't had a close encounter with 16v engines yet, so now I'm planning on doing that s16 engine in the winter. That's why I'm here to exchange views and see what works best for me.

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ogi205gti
15 minutes ago, jackherer said:

Surprisingly enough yes it is!

 

I removed an aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold from a 2.0 S16 and temporarily refitted the cast iron OE part. Performance was much worse, I don't have figures but for it to be as noticeable as it was it must have been 10+ bhp lost.

 

I've done the same thing with a 1.9 Mi16 and I couldn't tell the difference. (aftermarket 4-2-1 to OE tubular 8-2-1)

 

On that subject has the OP considered an aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold? E.G. https://www.maniflow.co.uk/index.php?view=product&product=1469

The problem is that I live in a country where our work is not appreciated, so I don't have much money for my projects. So I was thinking of finding an original branch without a 4-2-1 because it is expensive and delivery is complicated.
What I have at my disposal is:
Two XU10J4RS engines.
One XU10J4 engine.
One disassembled XU9J4 (D6C) engine.
The rest are 8v engines.
I wonder if you will be ok with those components I listed in the start of the topic.

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ogi205gti
23 hours ago, petert said:

There are indeed two XU10J4 versions of the inlet cam. The S16 version has the oil supply for the vacuum pump, which can be easily blanked off. The 405 version doesn't have the hole(s) as it doesn't have a vacuum pump.

What do you think about the specifications I plan to incorporate into my s16 rft?

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DamirGTI
34 minutes ago, ogi205gti said:

The problem is that I live in a country where our work is not appreciated, so I don't have much money for my projects.

Same here :ph34r:

 

Even if you somehow manage to finance all those engine mod parts , and build up an nice modified engine , making it then road legal is usually impossible by our law system ... except if you have really strong nerves , copious amount of free time , and an elephant size brain to battle up with bureaucracy and tons of paperwork , stamps , certificates , exceptionally dumb and ignorant people working in the country main "vehicle center" which decide if you pass or fail .

So much for being "proud" member of the EU .. nothing really changed , if any it's just even worse , more complicated and more expensive from top to the bottom .

 

D

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ogi205gti

I believe. But in Bosnia, there is something special about the esteemed people. I work at an authorized Citroen service and the pay is ridiculous compared to the EU. Not to mention a mechanical technician or anything like that. To continue now is not the topic of this, I wanted to say that I would have to set aside my salary to buy an exhaust manifold or similar ..

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DamirGTI

I know how you feel .. trust me , it's the same s*it over here , the same battle and struggle ... all ex YU countries we're all the same (in the same crap system) politicians sold us and made us poor people .

 

I've lost count of how many people left working in the EU last few years (the "proper" EU - Germany , Ireland etc. .. not the eastern crap type EU) with most of them no intention of coming back any time soon , if ever .. the difference/amount of money people earn for the same job here and out there is mind blowing !

 

For us still living here , suppose we can just light an candle and prey for the better times (unfortunately , for most of us getting older now it's already too late)

 

D

 

 

 

Edited by DamirGTI
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SootySport
20 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

I know how you feel .. trust me , it's the same s*it over here , the same battle and struggle ... all ex YU countries we're all the same (in the same crap system) politicians sold us and made us poor people .

 

I've lost count of how many people left working in the EU last few years (the "proper" EU - Germany , Ireland etc. .. not the eastern crap type EU) with most of them no intention of coming back any time soon , if ever .. the difference/amount of money people earn for the same job here and out there is mind blowing !

 

For us still living here , suppose we can just light an candle and prey for the better times (unfortunately , for most of us getting older now it's already too late)

 

D

 

 

 

The idea of joining the EU was to gradually raise the economy and working standards/ salary of new members.  It has worked in Poland and Czech Republic but will take some years for newest east European countries to see improvements.  
Of course, we are leaving but that’s another issue and no one really has an idea how it’s going to work out.

Have you considered moving to one of the West European countries? could be good for you, even the UK still has a skilled labour shortage.

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DamirGTI
33 minutes ago, SootySport said:

Have you considered moving to one of the West European countries? could be good for you, even the UK still has a skilled labour shortage.

Not sure really , would prefer to stay but all options are open .. seems like the older you get the harder is to make such decision .

 

D

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wicked
On 11/26/2019 at 9:08 PM, ogi205gti said:

The problem is that I live in a country where our work is not appreciated, so I don't have much money for my projects. So I was thinking of finding an original branch without a 4-2-1 because it is expensive and delivery is complicated.
What I have at my disposal is:
Two XU10J4RS engines.
One XU10J4 engine.
One disassembled XU9J4 (D6C) engine.
The rest are 8v engines.
I wonder if you will be ok with those components I listed in the start of the topic.

Why not just fit a complete XU10J4RS?

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ogi205gti

Because I have two 306 gti6's and that engine is not something special to me. I want to try this with s16. And it also takes a lot of money to get the xu10j4rs to 180 + hp.
And my friend put the same components on the s16 as I wrote at the beginning, which I thought I put on that engine and his car had 177hp on dyno.
Sorry for bad English.

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Edited by ogi205gti

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