Motronic MP3.1 from 605

[DamirGTI 323]

Bought myself an 605 2.0 XU10J2Z ECU and loom to be fitted on tuned 1.9 8v D6B engine (around 10.8 CR , ported head , standard D6B cam etc.) with the intention : mapped ignition .

Closest i was able to find is this 605 system as there's zero ZX 1.9 cars around these days !

 

Now i'm not sure if the 605 ECU map will be good for 1.9 engine , i can find an ZX 1.9 ECU too , but will need to stretch the budget further for yet another ECU .

 

Can anyone "decipher" this ignition map and whether it will be any good for 1.9 engine ? :

 

XU10J2 IGNITION :

96   16.1  18.2  20.3  20.3  23.8  24.5  25.9  26.6  31.5  30.1  29.4  29.4
80   16.1  18.2  20.3  20.3  23.8  24.5  25.9  26.6  31.5  30.1  29.4  29.4
66   16.1  18.2  20.3  20.3  23.8  24.5  25.9  26.6  31.5  30.1  29.4  29.4
55   20.3  20.3  23.8  25.9  28.7  33.6  35.7  41.3  44.1  43.4  42.0  46.2
46   24.5  24.5  27.3  29.4  30.8  36.4  39.9  43.4  44.1  41.3  42.7  44.8
39   25.9  25.9  29.4  31.5  34.3  41.3  45.5  43.4  44.1  42.0  42.0  45.5
32   30.1  30.1  41.3  36.4  40.6  46.2  47.6  43.4  46.2  43.4  46.2  49.0
27   32.2  32.2  41.3  37.1  47.6  43.4  44.8  47.6  47.6  44.8  48.3  51.1
23   32.9  30.8  36.4  36.4  42.0  42.0  43.4  48.3  46.2  46.9  50.4  46.9
18   21.0  21.0  21.0  23.8  27.3  31.5  44.1  44.1  44.8  44.8  44.8  45.5
14   12.6  12.6  12.6  20.3  21.7  25.9  44.1  44.1  44.8  44.8  44.8  45.5
11   12.6  12.6  12.6  18.2  20.3  25.9  44.1  44.1  44.8  44.8  44.8  45.5
kPa     600   800  1000  1200  1400  1600  2000  2800  3600  4400  5200  6000  rpm

XU10J2 FUEL :

 

96      117   117   117   117   114   111   114   116   113   113   113   110
80      117   117   117   117   114   111   114   116   113   100   102   106
66      110   110   110   110   102   100    98    98    98    96    99   103
55      107   107   107   107    97    96    96    95    95    93    96   100
46      104   104   104    96    95    94    96    96    94    94    96    98
39      104   100    96    97    96    95    97    95    95    94    96    97
32      100   100    96    97    95    95    96    96    97    95    96    97
27      100   100    98    96    95    95    96    96    96    96    99    99
23      100   100    99   100    95    96    96    94    96   100   100    99
18      100    96   100    98    95    95    94    93    96   100   103   102
14      100   100   100    96    98    96    96    96    96   102   102   102
11      100   100   103   101    98   100   100   100   100   102   102   102
kPa     600   800  1000  1200  1400  1600  2000  2800  3600  4520  5400  6320  rpm

 

Thanks !

D

 

[petert 549]

I think the top line is the full load advance. ie does it go from 16.1 to 29.4 at full throttle? That's probably not ideal but it will be drive ok.

[DamirGTI 323]

Peter ,

 

Yes , top line goes from 16.1 to 29.4 :

16.1  18.2  20.3  20.3  23.8  24.5  25.9  26.6  31.5  30.1  29.4  29.4

 

So , it should work then ?

I remember you saying that the high CR 1.9 8v needs 30deg advance for full power/torque ?

 

It's an Bosch 0 261 200 214 ECU

 

Thanks !

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

[petert 549]

Yes, I'd give it a go. You can always reflash it.

 

[DamirGTI 323]

Will do Peter !

 

Curious to see how it will drive , who knows maybe this ECU will be even more suitable to the engine than the ZX 1.9 Volcane ECU .

 

I have an mate who does this ECU reflash stuff , so i guess he might burn some chips if this turns out to be bad for the engine .

 

There's also one ZX 1,9 ECU on sale , but for now i will not stretch my budget further until i try what i have now .

 

Thanks

D

[DamirGTI 323]

Found an bargain ZX 1.9 Volcane ECU and couldn't resist on buying it !

 

Was from a scrappy in Spain sold via Ebay ... opened the case to inspect it and found inside what seems to be dried out sea water sediment ?! either the car came from some flood affected area or the owner had habit driving on the beach ... if it really is , sea water sediment or perhaps some leftover of the engine bay cleaning agent .

 

Top side looks good/dry , but underneath there's some oxidation around few resistors/chips ... i do not have the loom ready yet to try it out , would this be considered as an shorted ECU ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

D

 

 

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hey Damir,

This looks like a fun project your doing.

I would try it if it were me. There's nothing to loose really, and I don't think the oxidation will be to much worry. It looks like salts in the picture.

If it's particularly crusted around any pins you could try and pick some away and wash it with a board cleaner, but just try it. It may well be fine. 

 

All the best, and love the project.

O.T.

 

[DamirGTI 323]

What would be best to use as an cleaning agent ? regular contact cleaner spray or isopropyl alcohol ?

 

Will defiantly try it out , if it will not work i guess the EPROM chip can be made to fit in the above 605 ECU ?

 

Thanks O.T. !

[Anthony 1,000]

The ECU on a ZX Volcane 1.9 is really poorly located/protected and is vulnerable to getting damp - every one that I've removed from a donor ZX has been covered in muck and one of my spare ECU's even has a rusty casing!

 

Remember that the ZX 1.9i engine (XU9JA/K) is only 9.2:1 compression - certainly it seems to be OK on a standard XU9JA (9.6:1) engine, but I fear it'll have too much advance for your engine at 10.8:1 with a standard cam.

[DamirGTI 323]

Yes , been thinking about that too Anthony .. especially as this management doesn't have knock sensor .

 

Dunno will see what happens when i pile up all the bits to try this .. i have an mate who does chip tuning so guess he'll be able to burn some chips if these 605/ZX turns out to be bad for this specific engine ..  also , i can lower the CR if needed as i raised CR with 1.9 DFZ pistons , have still D6B ones and DKZ pistons too .. and 4 spare 1.9 engines to play with !! 

 

 

D

[welshpug 1,621]

didnt think the zx /306 location was that bad, better than the 405!

 

can concur it works ok on a mildly cammed standard xu9ja.

[DamirGTI 323]

Yeah ! 405 is under the scuttle panel , i really don't understand engineers decision placing the ECU's in the engine bay where's risk of damage by heat , vibration , and moisture for the sake of a few lengths of wiring putting the ECU's in the cabin .. not just the PSA , BMW also , some WV models , Opel/Vauxhall too ..

 

Happy to hear it works on a modified engine ! will see how it goes on a bit higher CR engine .

 

D

[20five_t 1 1 Cars]

I bought a full setup out of a scapped 1.9 zx volcane a few years back - the ecu, loom, coil pack, flywheel, inlet, sad  etc. I'll have to get round to trying it one day.

It also had a throttle mixture pot as well that was attached to the ecu I think - will you need find one of them to get it working properly?

[Anthony 1,000]

45 minutes ago, 20five_t said:

It also had a throttle mixture pot as well that was attached to the ecu I think - will you need find one of them to get it working properly?

 

Yes, there is a separate mixture pot on MP3.1.  You can replace it with a lambda - both Pug_ham and Welshpug have done this on their respective installs from memory and I'm sure a search would reveal the details.

[DamirGTI 323]

Correct ! did some research myself and found said posts/topics ..

 

The loom is from a 605 , it has lambda and ISCV , i have all the sensors and stuff too for this system just need to repair the injector wiring/connectors and it'll be ready .. and fit the Motronic flywheel .. however , for now i had to put this on a hold for some time due to the health issues .

 

D

[Anthony 1,000]

Hope you're on the mend health wise soon Damir.

[DamirGTI 323]

Thank you Anthony !

 

Sincerely 

Damir

 

 

[opticaltrigger 52]

On 9/18/2018 at 11:43 AM, DamirGTI said:

What would be best to use as an cleaning agent ? regular contact cleaner spray or isopropyl alcohol ?

Hi Damir,

This is great really, I actually want to be there when you try it to be honest.

 

I would just use a standard contact cleaner. If the crusty stuff is real bad anywhere on the board, I'd just scrape the bits that look like they might cause a short, and then wash it off, followed by a good dry off with an air line. ( I have a feeling that it could well, just be all ok anyway though. )

Looking forward to finding out what happens.

 

All the best mate,

O.T.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by opticaltrigger

[DamirGTI 323]

Yeah , me too ! really curious to see how it will drive with both ECU's , don't even mind a blown engine as i have a few spare ones !!

 

Understood , will clean up the ECU board as best as i can .. to be honest the oxidized areas might look worse on the pictures than what they are/is in real , so guess it'll work after clean-up (fingers crossed) .

 

Will report back when i plug this in and make an test drive .

 

Thanks O.T. !

Damir

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

A glass fiber pen is a nice tool to clean up your PCB. Attached the ignition curves of a bone stock XU9JAZ ECU. (firmware version 1 267 355 643)

Damir.xlsx

[DamirGTI 323]

Excellent ! thanks a lot for sharing those maps !

 

 

D

[DamirGTI 323]

Finally , got some time to install this 605 Mp3.1 loom .

 

All went well , and must say i'm really impressed on how it drives ! so much better than Jetronic , shame they didn't use Mp3.1 on 205 from factory .

 

Anyhow .. unfortunately there's an problem - in my case , i'm getting slight pinking mostly in 4-th and 5-th on mid to higher throttle application

 

Running on ZX ECU + 605 loom , granted it was very humid and hot day and quarter of the tank filled with 95RON petrol with maybe 3 liters of 100RON mixed up . 

My engine is at around high 10 CR , think 10.8 maybe even 11.1 .

 

I also have 605 Mp3.1 ECU , haven't got time to try that one but if it pinks on ZX ECU guessing on a 605 one it'll be even worse (605 is around 8.8 CR if i remember ?!)

 

Would need to siphon out this 95/100 fuel mix , and fill it up with straight 100 .. and see if it maybe works then without pinking . 

 

However , would really like to make this work somehow as it should ie. correct the ignition map - not going back to Jetronic now that's for sure !!

 

D

 

 

 

[DamirGTI 323]

Which equipment and program is needed to read and write these old EPROM chips ? might try and have a go by myself , if i cannot find someone to make another chip with corrected ignition map .

 

Also , would we consider this ECU location "too hot" so it can overheat (it's temporally for now ..) :

 

 

[SRDT 146]

The ECU is probably a bit too close from the expansion tank.

You will find EPROM readers for the 27C256 on aliexpress. Tunerpro can be used to modify the program but you need the corresponding XDF file to make sense of the binary file... or you can try to figure it out yourself by looking at others XDFs and documentation for similar ECUs.

 

They are One Time Programmable or UV erasable EPROMs, I think pin compatible EEPROMs are NLA so you need an adapter if you don't want to bother with the UV eraser.

Edited July 2, 2023 by SRDT

[DamirGTI 323]

Yeah , not ideal ECU placement but was pretty much the only place in the engine bay i could mount it for now .. as 605 loom goes opposite direction to the ZX loom , thus less room on the right side of the engine bay .

But it's pretty long loom so seem it'll go straight to the cabin via firewall without the need for any wire extension . But that once i sort out the ignition issue .

 

I've zero experience with chip tuning , map reading and etc. ... if decided to go that route by myself will have to go from scratch and by the looks of it it'll take a while to learn how to !!

 

Any way of "tricking" the ECU so it knocks off a few deg. of advance ? say by manipulating sensors (IAT) with resistors or variable potentiometer ?

Shame it doesn't have knock sensor like Mp3.2 .

 

There's additional wiring (along with the bunch of EVAP stuff) for - injector coding resistor . Can that be used to "trim down" spark advance a little bit ?

Temporally till i figure out how to solve EPROM map properly , as i need it driving because it's my daily drive thus not much time to play with it (reason being it took me so long to even try out/rewire it on new management)

 

D