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Andy Willis

Rev counter help!!!

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Andy Willis

Hi all,

 

ive completed a Gti6 conversion and the only thing I can’t solve is my non working rev counter.

 

Firstly I carried out the bridge wire method, this didn’t work so then I removed this and carried out the removing and moving resistors method, which still didn’t work, I’ve just purchased and wired in the spoox motorsport diode kit and it still doesn’t work!!!!!

 

Please help as I’m now at a dead end with it!

 

Thanks

 

Andy

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pug_ham

Where are you taking the rev counter signal from?

 

g

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Andy Willis

426 rev/tacho speed (red) that was originally on the Gti6 19 pin round plug 

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pug_ham

Ok, does this bell through with a multi meter at the ecu plug pin for the ecu rev counter output pin 42?

 

Have you blown the fuse for the rev counter? (fuse 1 10 amp in the car fuse box iirc).

 

g

 

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Andy Willis

I finally got round to having a better look into this at the weekend.

 

yes, the feed wire at the rev counter plug bells through to pin 42 on the ecu. 

 

Fuse is is in tact.

 

i am getting a low voltage reading of around 3.2v at the feed wire when engine running but still nothing show on the rev counter

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opticaltrigger

Hi Andy,

This sounds interesting, and I'm sure, very frustrating. I like things like this which is frustrating. If I lived closer I'd come over just to figure it out. It is absolutely possible to fix this.

 

I'm not familiar with the specific wiring situation on your conversion, please forgive my ignorance.

But as I'm sure you already know, it's not really a very complicated thing to feed a rev counter with an ignition pulse. So it is a little odd especially as you've checked all the above mentioned stuff. I must admit, my first thought was the diode method until you mentioned it.

 

Have you got a localised diagram of the wiring that you have, which you could flash up to take a look at ?

Also, I suppose I should ask... What inputs and more specifically pulse signal does your rev counter want to see ? (As I said, please forgive my ignorance.)

 

All the very best

O.T.

 

 

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welshpug

as you have messed with the rev counter already I'd be inclined to start again with a fresh rev counter and just make a diode pickup and use the coils to trigger it, which is what the spoox kit does (at 20x the cost of some diodes and a bit of wire)   no need to use the ecu feed.

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opticaltrigger
12 hours ago, welshpug said:

as you have messed with the rev counter already I'd be inclined to start again with a fresh rev counter and just make a diode pickup and use the coils to trigger it, which is what the spoox kit does (at 20x the cost of some diodes and a bit of wire)   no need to use the ecu feed.

I'm of exactly the same thinking Mei.

It would certainly be the quickest and simplest solution.

 

O.T.

 

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Andy Willis

Thanks guys, that’s helpful. I agree probably a good solution, my only question is, if I already have the diode kit from spoox and I pick up another standard rev counter, how do I pick up a feed from the coils? I’m pretty novice at auto electrics

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wicked

There is a bit more detail needed in this story than most people think. The 205 rev counter is designed to work on a coil and not at a low voltage rpm signal from an ECU. 

If you need to attach the rev counter to multiple coils, the diode trick does work. It will not work to attach it to an ECU. 

 

Some people modify their rev counter to work on the low voltage rpm signal. (google for it). If you attach a modified rev counter back to the coil, you will blow it. 

Personally I would not modify the rev counter itself, but use the spoox module it you need to run it on an ecu signal (it does not contain diodes, as some people suggest).

 

In this particular case I would also start with a fresh known good rev counter and choose to use diode to pickup from the coils, or the spoox module to take it from the ECU.

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Andy Willis

Thanks for the post, so if I use a fresh known good rev counter and the spoox module that should work on the ecu feed?

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welshpug

no, ignore the ecu feed, find the 4 coil trigger wires and tap into them, follow the directions that are with the spoox unit.

Edited by welshpug

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Tom Fenton

Emerald sell a box that should work on the ECU rev counter output wire.

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wicked
17 hours ago, welshpug said:

no, ignore the ecu feed, find the 4 coil trigger wires and tap into them, follow the directions that are with the spoox unit.

To which spoox unit are you refering to?

 

The one that I've seen has 4 wires of which 1 should go to the ecu, 1 to the rev counter, 1 12v feed and a ground, according to the instructions. 

Don't see how to connect that one to 4 coils.

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welshpug

not seen any that use the ecu trigger, have made quite a few coil pickups that worked just fine though.

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pug_ham

I don't think Mei making you a converter will be any easier to wire in than the Spoox one you already have.

 

If it's just four wires to do the install it can't be that difficult, are you connecting the correct wires in the correct order?

 

You have a pm.

 

g

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Andy Willis

This is the bumf listed for the spoox product i have but it seems contradicting as the first paragraph mentions the eco tacho output but then the second paragraph mentions the signal from the coil packs?

 

When installing an S16 (XU10J4), GTI-6 (XU10J4RS), SRi Turbo (XU10J2TE) or 405 T16 (XU10J4TE) engine into a 205 or 309 a converter is required to alter the signal from the ecu tacho output to the single analogue rev counter wire found on the 205 & 309 models.

 

We have constructed a very small yet extremely reliable & durable converter box which converts the signals from the coil packs to the correct reading for the rev counter.

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Telf

I was under the impression emerald sell a premade solution for about £30

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Andy

Yup.They do.Designed to take an rpm ( low voltage ) signal from the ecu and feed a suitable pulse to the Rev counter, which God and Peugeot ordained should be fed from the negative side of the ignition coil., hence the need for a signal converter . 

Worked with my set up and now graces Spenos Dimma with the same result . I imagine the Spoox adaptor is essentially the same idea , so ought to work in the same idea .

 

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Andy Willis

I have wired in the spoox converter which states in the diagram to connect to the ecu output however it is still not working, I have the following readings so I’m presuming my spoox converter is duff??

 

12v feed to spoox mod reads 12.2V ignition off and 14v engine running

 

earth is good, reading 0.3ohms to spoox converter

 

ecu feed to spoox converter is showing 5.7v on engine idle

 

tacho signal wire coming out of spoox converter only giving 1.9v

 

all these readings suggest everything is wired correctly however I’m only getting an output of 1.9V and not 12v??

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Andy

Yup.They do.Designed to take an rpm ( low voltage ) signal from the ecu and feed a suitable pulse to the Rev counter, which God and Peugeot ordained should be fed from the negative side of the ignition coil., hence the need for a signal converter . 

Worked with my set up and now graces Spenos Dimma with the same result . I imagine the Spoox adaptor is essentially the same idea , so ought to work in the same idea .

 

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wicked
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Andy Willis said:

I have wired in the spoox converter which states in the diagram to connect to the ecu output however it is still not working, I have the following readings so I’m presuming my spoox converter is duff??

 

12v feed to spoox mod reads 12.2V ignition off and 14v engine running

 

earth is good, reading 0.3ohms to spoox converter

 

ecu feed to spoox converter is showing 5.7v on engine idle

 

tacho signal wire coming out of spoox converter only giving 1.9v

 

all these readings suggest everything is wired correctly however I’m only getting an output of 1.9V and not 12v??

 

Measuring voltages on signals that have pulses doesn't say that much. Using a scoop provides much more info. 

I have built some these converters in the past and think the readings is not what the should be.

On the input it seems too high (dc is average of the pulse signal) and the output seems too low. The output should mimic the negative side of a coil, which should be higher at idle. (most time off = 12v on neg side). I would expect a value higher than 6v DC there.    

It is common to switch inductive loads on the negative side, as God and Peugeot know, so it is not strange that that signal was used for tacho's in older systems that had mechanical ignition with rpm signal from ECU. 

 

I suspect that the signal of the ECU is not what the converter expects. Try to find someone with a scoop or buy a cheap USB scoop to find out what it does. 

Edited by wicked

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Andy

Hi. As Rolf says, your multimeter will not respond to those pulse fluctuations. Even at tickover , there will be 14-18 pulses per second so your meter will just give an average of the pulse height. If the ecu was giving a square wave, the  dc offset would be zero. It isn’t so the ecu output must be a pulse with a pulse height of around 6V . What we do not know is what the Spoox device is designed to use as an input . For that matter, the same applies to the Emerald item. The latter does , however, work an absolute dream with the Emerald ECU. Given that Emerald are very very helpful if you call them, you could give them a shout and ask them about their converter. They will tell you what output the Emerald gives for its tacho signal . They may also know about o.e ecu s tacho output . That might help you make some progress

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