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Gavin Waddell

Car starts then cuts out immediately

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Gavin Waddell

As per title I pulled my car out of hibernation on Friday night started it and drove  it about half a mile to my house. As yesterday was sunny decided to take it for a spin and it’s a that pont that it decided that it dOesnt  wants to run any more ? The car starts the dies as soon As you apply the throttle. 

 

It has spark and fuel, when i unplug the airflow meter it runs albeit  a bit lumpy soon as you plug it back in nothing. Did some searches but most of the Articles out not very conclusive.

 

any ideas? 

 

Thanks Gavin 

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dcc

I assume 1.9 8v? No cat?

 

Common issues is tacho relay, leads, ecu temp sensor, fuel filter, fuel pressure reg, distributor cap and rotor arm, plugs fould, less likely but possible split exhaust restricting air flow, timing, ignition timing, 

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Gavin Waddell

Hey dcc, it’s a 1.6, that’s a fairly long list of things that could go wrong. The leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm, écu temp sensor, fuel pump our all new.   

 

What i don’t get is why will it run with the afm unplugged. 

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Gavin Waddell

I also disconnected the fuel rail to check for fuel and it’s getting fuel and spark. Bit puzzled as it ran fine on Friday so I could move it.

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dcc

flow does not equal pressure if the regulator doesn't work :)

 

short of that logical list i dont know what to suggest sorry :(

 

maybe poop fuel

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Gavin Waddell

Do you know why it could run without the airflow plugged in and not run when plugged in?

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dcc

i dont know exactly, but id imagine it helps tell the ecu to add more / less fuel depending on how far open it is. might be worth refurbishing it. plenty of youtube videos showing how to do it. I guess they are 30 years old now so the tracks inside it may be corroded or worn. It's really difficult to diagnose an issue like this over the internet.

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Gavin Waddell

Ok cheers, I will try and go over everything  thing methodologically and see what gremlins I can find

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Telf

This thread might help:

 

 

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Gavin Waddell

That kind of helps thanks telf. will whip out the volt meter to see if everything is as it should be.

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pslynam

As per the suggested thread above, mine ran without afm plugged in. The car would also die when you applied the throttle, turned out to be the vacuum advance unit on the distributor.

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AlexRS2782

Don't discount a possible bad fuel issue as suggested by dcc.

 

My own 205 exhibited the same turn over, idle briefly, then cut out, issue earlier this year.  Like your car things like leads, plugs, dizzy, rotor, etc, were all replaced last year.  Anyway I gave the car to Miles thinking it was likely wiring / techo relay, afm, etc, related but he gave all that a good going over and everything was perfectly fine on that front. 

 

All I did before I dropped the car down to him by trailer was to go via the petrol station and fill the tank back up to full as it was on 1/2 tank from the previous fill up.  After a number of starts / stops at the exhaust place, then at Miles, and then Miles giving it a few runs back & forth locally, he couldn't get the car to replicate the problem I'd had at all.

 

The only thing we could put it down to, as everything else was fine, was that the splash & dash of approx 1/4 tank i'd done previously (at a petrol station I don't normally use) could have resulted in some crap fuel being pumped into the car.  The fill up I did, before I gave the car to Miles, was from the petrol station I normally use so decent fresh super unleaded, coupled with the stops / starts cleared out the remnants of the previous fill up, as the car's run perfectly since I got it back a few weeks ago.

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Gavin Waddell

Ok cheers that’s pretty much the same as whats vhappening to me. The car has under a 1/4 tank of fuel will go and grab 10 litters if fuel and drop it in to see what happens .

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Gavin Waddell

Ok, but of an update on this mystery problem.

 

I basically tried all of the above to get it started but no luck, so i left it for well a year and a half. Then a couple weeks ago I decided to pull my finger out and get it fixed.

 

I started to do a bit of research and found a few posts about bridging the tach relay plug, so I did that and no luck. I also started to check the wiring and everything was about right. Theresa’s a weird thing on the tach relay that it was supposed to heave a permanent  live but mines seems to be switched on the ignition? Any how’s still no luck would only starts without the afm plugged in? Which it shouldn’t.

 

I went back on the inter web and found a post in Aussie frogs where some one had the same trouble. Now they said to unplugge the écu temp sensor because if it shorts out the écu won’t fuel properly. Forgot to mention I pulled the injectors out and they weren’t firing.

So tonight I went to the garage tried to start it and nothing. Unplugged the afm and it Started ? Then I plugged in the afm and unplugged ecu temp sensor and it bloody well started ! So I’m guessing sensor is gone. Going to order a new one and then leave the car for another 6 months as it’s winter here and it’s going to snow soon.

 

Bring on the spring

 

Gavin

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Gavin Waddell

Well update time

So I changed the water temp sensor and still won’t run unless I remove the temp sensor or the AFM, with both plugged in it worn run I also changed the ignition amp. 

 

Put fresh fuel in as well

 

what I don’t get is why it’s runs when the temp sensor is un plugged or the AFM. I looked through Haynes wiring diagrams and I can’t really see what could go wrong apart from maybe écu or AFM?

 

the injectors won’t fire when everything is plugged in but once I unplug one of the two mentioned above it runs albeit very rich.

 

 

any further ideas would be appreciated.

 

thanks Gavin 

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Gavin Waddell

Just had another thought, does the écu have some sort of fault mode, if it doesn’t see the AFM or the TS it still lets the car start?

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boldy205

It might take a while for the fresh fuel to come up to the engine, a lot of priming and cranking should help.

Have you looked at the SAD?

 

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Gavin Waddell

I’ve done lots of cracking and I’ve gotten rid of the sad a while ago, I’m thinking it ain’t getting fuel, I’m doing some research on the forum on injectors not firing.

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DamirGTI

Easy to diagnose/verify ...

 

Use easy start spray for testing purpose :

 

- if it starts and runs on spray then there's spark but no fuel

- if it doesn't run on spray , usually no spark , or can be both no spark and no fuel (to divide that further : take the plugs out and see if they're wet .. if so then there's fuel , so lacks just the spark)

 

D

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boldy205
37 minutes ago, Gavin Waddell said:

I’ve done lots of cracking and I’ve gotten rid of the sad a while ago, I’m thinking it ain’t getting fuel, I’m doing some research on the forum on injectors not firing.

Interesting, how did you get rid of the SAD?  Just interested!

 

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DamirGTI

Put a cork in it !

 

Would be more interested to hear why , get rid of it ?

 

..as it's such a simple device witch rarely goes bad .

 

D

 

 

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Gavin Waddell

I’m going to go and buy some easy start tonight to see what happens but I reckon I’m not get fuel out of the injectors.

 

took the sad off because car was only getting unused in the summer and I when I did it I was young and dumb.

 

Damir I have a question for you.

whilst searching for my weird problem I came across a post of yours. You were looking for a mp3.1for your car and found one fron a 605 j2z? Do you have a pin out for the double relay? All that I can find has 10 outputs and mine has 13 or it’s a diagram for the turbo version and they’re not the same pin outs.

 

thanks  Gavin

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Thijs_Rallye
1 hour ago, Gavin Waddell said:

I’m going to go and buy some easy start tonight to see what happens but I reckon I’m not get fuel out of the injectors.

Brake cleaner works just as well and has more purposes ;).

 

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Gavin Waddell

Alright got some of that home already cheers for the tip

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DamirGTI
8 hours ago, Gavin Waddell said:

Damir I have a question for you.

whilst searching for my weird problem I came across a post of yours. You were looking for a mp3.1for your car and found one fron a 605 j2z? Do you have a pin out for the double relay? All that I can find has 10 outputs and mine has 13 or it’s a diagram for the turbo version and they’re not the same pin outs.

 

thanks  Gavin

 

Seems like you've got Motronic Mp3.2 loom (big brown or black "Bitron" injection relay) ... possibly from a 2.0 T if it's from a 605 .

 

605 XU10J2Z has mostly the same loom as the ZX 1.9 Volcane ... with exception , more wiring on a 605 loom which has lambda , IAC valve , and EVAP wiring too .

Injection relays are identical as on the ZX - two separate relays , one with 4 pins (injection supply) and another with 5 pins (fuel pump) .

 

D

 

 

 

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