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Milwain

No spark or injectors firing

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Milwain

Hi everyone thought i would post on here as there seems alot more info on tu5j4 conversions i have a 2002 1.1 106 3 plug shell and fitted a single plug 106 gti engine loom etc iv spliced the loom into the 1.1 shell the fuel pump primes i have ignition live to pin 14 on the double relay and have permanent live to pins 11/8/2 on the double relay all my earth are clean and good but im only getting power to the coil and injector loom plug on initial prime or if i crank it over it looses the 12v feed iv tryed 3 ecu’s and 2 coils the ignition live im using to the relay stays live while cranking could it be an inertia switch problem somwhere or have i spliced incorrectly any help would be great as its driving me crazy now thanks in advance matt 

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Milwain

Iv just ordered a new crank sensor and double relay as opened mine up last night and its full of rust so needed one anyway but i still cannot figure why i dont have a 12v feed to the coil when the fuel pump stops priming or does it become live again when it gets a signal from the crank sensor ? 

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Arthur
Posted (edited)

I don't 100% grasp your question.

 

I know one thing though. The ecu switches the relay to mass only when the vr sensor (trigger) has a pulse. In other words; the coil and injectors only have 12V+ when the crank is actually moving. (and a prime pulse also) and this is how it is supposed to be. 

 

 

 

Edited by Arthur

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Milwain

I think i know what you mean iv been thinking  that once the initial prime to the fuel pump stops i loose 12v to pin 3 on the coil plug and thats why its not running.

but is that what is ment to happen untill i crank it to start and the crank sensor then tell’s the ecu to feed 12v to the coil again. 

Because at the moment i dont have 12v to pin 3 on the coil while cranking thanks  for your reply arthur

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Arthur
Posted (edited)

When you put the ign on, the eco primes the  engines with some fuel. Coils, pump and injectors get 12v briefly and then 12V is gone again. In theory you can flood your engine by turning ignition on and off 10 times. 

 

After that you start your engine, trigger sensor gets a pulse, eco switches the relay to mass and Coils, pumps and injectors are 12V again. While cranking, the eco gives a certain pulsewidth to the injectors (base on engine temp) and it should start. 

 

I don't know the pinout out of my head off course, but you should have 12V while cranking.  Sounds to me you might have forgotten to install the cable from relay to eco which the eco uses to switch the relay to mass. I made the same mistake 10 years back. I installed VEMS into my car and it was a very learning full experience. :D

Edited by Arthur

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Milwain

Ok thanks for the advise ill fit the new relay and crank sensor when im home from work and see what happens and report back sorry to sound thick but what do you mean by eco ? Thanks 

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Arthur

I mean ecu. 

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Arthur
Posted (edited)

Hi

 

I likes these puzzles :D.

 

I might have made a mistake in earlier advice though, come to think about it.

 

The fact that you do have 12V on the coils briefly, proves that the wiring from relay to ecu is correct. If that was incorrect the brief pulse would also not happen. Then when you crank nothing happens, right. This must mean the ecu does not receive the pulse from the crank sensor. Either it's broke, as you suspect, the wiring is not correct or it's a mechanical issue. Let's see whether a new sensor works. Also you could check whether it is close enough to the teeth or some other mechanical issue. And the sensor wiring.

 

 

Edited by Arthur

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Milwain

Right tryed the new crank sensor and still nothing a friends coming over soon so ill get him to hold the multimeter on the 2 wires from the crank sensor and see what i get according to autodata there should be 2v ac when cranking 

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Arthur

I found my old 106 manual. There should be 3 wires between relay and ecu for gti. 1217, 1236 and 1233. But the tu1m engine has only 2 wires 1217 and 1233. Looks like gti feed the coil via the high power side of the relay (1236)  1,1 feeds the coil from 1227.

 

 

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Milwain

Iv just con checked the 3 wire from the gti relay plug to the pins on the ecu and they all buzzed through fine following the diagram i have i have put my meter onto the crank sensor wires and cranked it and im getting nothing from the crank sensor autodata says it should have 2v ac while cranking on my diagram pin 13 on the relay  (wire 1226) is feeding pin 3 on the coil and pin 4 (wire 1210) is feeding the 4 wires to the injectors 

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Arthur

hmmmm. Flywheel, teeth distance etc? 

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Arthur

In the diagram I have 1210 schoul be on pin 1 at the relay and pin 4 is 1217, which looks like 12v lead for ecu

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Milwain

Mine are opposite on the diagram i have i dont think the ecu is getting a signal from the crank sensor flywheel looks to be ok from what i can see through the gearbox i dont think the gap can be adjusted between the flywheel and crank sensor 

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Milwain

I just accidentally touched the green wire coming from the crank sensor to the gearbox and it fired the fuel pump for a second 

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Arthur

Ummmmm. Right. Does that mean the sensor makes ground? Is the sensor itself on the right ecu pins? Neither of the cables is plus or minus. The sensor is just a coil making a sinus when teeth pass

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Milwain

I have friend here now so been able to test the crank sensor properly its giving 2.6v ac when cranking so thats working fine but still nothing there the 2 wires from the sensor buzz through to the right pins on the ecu everything i have checked seems to be working as it should im stuck with what to do next 

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Arthur
Posted (edited)

Pins 30 and 49 on my diagram. And d132 (shielding) on pin 19 or is it 15 and 18?  Diagram names both speed pickup AND position sensor separate, while its the same sensor. 

 

I think

Edited by Arthur

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Milwain

Im giving up for now iv put it in the corner of my garage and going to leave it for a few months now the weathers getting better ill use my other toy for a while and collect bits for the 106 i think im going to just get a 3 plug ecu and loom off a vts and do it that way saves all the problems big thanks to arthur for your help and replies really appreciate it 

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Milwain

Thought i would have another mess as im bored and iv bridged a wire on the ignition barrel that was going to 0v when cranking with a constant 12v and i now have power to the pump/coil (pin3)/injector plug (pin 1) but still not starting 

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Milwain

When cranking im only getting 0.16 volt to pin1 and pin2  on the coil from another post iv seen this should be 1.5v when cranking 

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Arthur

In have ni idea. I’m weeks from starting and I use 8v coils. Just got the bracket from  Spoox. Mostly when things are realy strange, ground is the problem

 

1BADE659-2754-4DF8-8761-4DAA9BB0F7AF.jpeg

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Milwain

Finally got it running it was the coil all along the coil that came with the engine had a white plug and the coil i brought had a white plug i didnt know the gti should run a black plug coil put my mates on and it fired straight up thanks again for your help arthur 

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