Won't Start- Fueling Issue?

[u47sb2 27 2 Cars]

Change, or bypass the tachymetric relay. That's what I'd do next. Unfortunately I can't remember where it is located, near the ECU in later cars but somewhere else in earlier cars?? Someone will say exactly where soon enough.

Anyway, that's the next thing I'd try.

[Juttie205 123 2 Cars]

I unplugged the relay and made a little link wire that bridges across im sure someone can tell you what terminals to link as i cannot remember.

If i remember you have to link the brown which is 12v to the 2 white wires one is pump and one is injectors then see if it starts if it does the its the relay.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Juttie205

[mowflow 67]

Right'o Justin. I'll give that a shot. If it melts the whole loom I promise I won't blame you.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Rather than guessing eliminate potential problems one at a time. At the moment you don't know for sure if you have fuel pressure at the rail. Start there.

[mowflow 67]

So does the fuel peeing out the fuel line that feeds to the fuel rail when disconnected not mean there is fuel pressure in the rail? I should have stuck the pressure gauge on it but forgot. If it's any indication it half filled a contained about the size of a cup in about 3 or 4 seconds.

 

Also tried pinching the return as per Damirs suggestion.

 

How else do I check this? Or should I say, how do I do it properly?

Edited October 29, 2016 by mowflow

[welshpug 1,623]

iirc the standard pump is 180 lph at 3 bar, so 50cc per second, 3 l per min.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Tom is trying to get you to follow a logical path of diagnosis. You have fuel in the rail, the node lights would suggest the signal is getting through to the injectors to open them, next logical step is to prove this is (or isn't) the case by actually observing the injectors. Really a quick and easy test.

[mowflow 67]

Managed to get 30 minutes to myself tonight so pulled the fuel rail and injectors. Injector 1 and 2 are squirting. 3 and 4 are non squirters.

[Anthony 1,000]

The injectors should batch fire, so it should be simple to narrow the fault down. Swap the wiring plug from a working injector to a dead one and see if the fault stays with the injector (in which case the injector is faulty) or moves with the plug (in which case it's probably a loom issue).

[mowflow 67]

I'll hopefully get time to check that tonight.

 

Should the injectors fire a sort of fan like spray of fuel? Mine were like a week water pistol.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Is the car standard 8v Jetronic? Sorry not sure. Anyway as Anthony says but to clarify, they should batch fire e.g. all 4 fire together. Looms don't usually give issues but have a look inside the connector plug to the injector as sometimes the pins can push back into the plug rather than making contact. The injectors can also go sticky sometimes if they've been sat dry, try encouraging them with a tap from a spanner to see if you can get them going.

[welshpug 1,623]

i have seen the looms break down where all the insulation breaks down, this may cause a short.

 

the 4 separate wires all merge roughly 6 inches down into the loom.

 

pressure should be 3 bar in the rail so itll be a brief jet not a dribble, unless you manually trigger them directly of course.

[mowflow 67]

Yes, it's a standard 1991 8v 1.6.

 

I would hope the loom is good as I sent it all off to Miles Horne and had him clean it up/overhaul it.

 

The injectors have sat dry for a while, probably a year if nor 2.

 

I'll do the above checks tonight and report back. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

[mowflow 67]

Good news.

 

I now have 4 working injectors. Whacking the 2 dead ones with a spanner seems to have released them.

 

The bad news is the bugger still won't start.

 

It definitely is sounding a hell of a lot more like it does want to run though so I'm feeling like we're getting there. If I release the key when cranking it now sort of coughs on for a wee while. So we have fuel, we have spark and we have compression.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Swing the dizzy while someone cranks it on the starter.

[mowflow 67]

So just undo the 2 nuts and turn it while they crank?

[Juttie205 123 2 Cars]

Im guessing your timing belt is timed up correctly.

[mowflow 67]

The marks were all lined up when fitted and the tensioner replaced and adjusted so the belt couldn't be twisted.

 

I could refit just to be sure but I quit like having skin on my knuckles.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Silly thought for the day, double check plug leads and firing order?

[DamirGTI 327]

Advance the ignition timing .. loosen the nuts on the dizzy and swing/rotate towards the back of the car till you get the dizzy to the midway position then rotate just a little bit more to the back and stop .. this'll roughly be good position for start up , but you'll need to fine adjust it later once you get it going .

 

Both lean and rich mixtures are notoriously hard to ignite , and the spark may be weak or occurring at the wrong time/place . I'd be tempted to try with an easy start spray (not carb cleaner nor brake cleaner) now when the injectors are functioning , advance the ignition , spray some in the inlet and start/see what happens .

 

Spark plugs , once was called out to try start my mates 205 rally with brand new NGK plugs fitted , it had good compression/fuel/spark everything but the bastard simply didn't want to start ! no matter what i did/tried until i tried with old Eyquem plugs - started up on the first turn of the key .. but that 1.3 engine is a little bit strange anyhow .

 

D

[mowflow 67]

It lives.

 

So jammed injectors and ignition all set up wrong seem to have been the issues.

 

I completely didn't understand how the ignition timing worked. I read some posts here that explained how to set it by finding TDC and giving the firing order (1-3-4-2). Still somehow managed to make a mess of it once but set it again and started first crack.

 

Massive thanks to everyone here for the helpful advice and for taking the time to post instructions.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Excellent...now go enjoy it

[mowflow 67]

I wish I could. It's still got no interior, bumpers, bonnet or brakes.

 

But everything from here should be easy...

 

right?

[Juttie205 123 2 Cars]

Glad you got it sorted in the end.

[mowflow 67]

Spoke too soon.

 

Tried to run it today to bleed the cooling system. It just revs like mad for 20 seconds or so then revs drop and it dies. Did that about 5 times and now back to being a non starter.