1.4 Xs Won't Start!

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Hi all, I have recently been having troubles with my xs and the problem being it won't start it downtown even fire up, I haventvstaryed it in a couple of months but when I came to I topped up the fuel tank with some fresh fuel as it was on the red and I thought this was the issue on why it wouldn't start but after trying this still no luck. The next thing I tried was to look at the carb, I noticed that the base gasket in between the carb and the inlet manifold was leaking petrol so I took the carb off and discovered the paper gasket was soaked in petrol so I assumed this was the problem.after making a new gasket with some gasket paper (not sure if it's the right type?) But after cleaning it up and stripping the carb to make sure all was clean I then put it all back together again tried it again but still nothing it's like it's not even trying, so I went to have a look at the carb again and noticed that there was petrol emerging from the sides of the base gasket again!

Could this still be the problem?

If not any helpful suggestions would be great thanks.

[TAG 25 1 Cars]

Have you checked for spark?

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Not yet but I will try and check today, but the dizzy cap, rotor arm and ht leads are all pretty new so there should be, does anyone have a pic of the gasket and insulating plate that are supposed to be used in between the inlet manifold and the carb as I think mine has been tinkered with by the previous owner also is the insulating plate supposed to be plastic?

Thanks.

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

After looking at the carb again today iv noticed that the second choke fuel nozzle is squirting quite a lot of fuel at the same time as the first choke nozzle and its building up fuel on the closed choke flap and then leaking a lot around the base gasket. Is it right for it to squirt fuel at the same time as the first choke without me putting my foot down on the accelerator pedal far enough to make the second choke kick (if that makes any sense)

Thanks.

[trogboy 17]

IIRC operating the throttle wide open should operate the accelerator pump jets in both barrels of the carb, but the throttle plates should be open by that point. The choke plate only operates on the primary barrel yes? - it's been a long time since I had one of these.

 

A video looking down the barrels would paint a thousand words here.

 

Also try no choke, and using the throttle to activate the pump jets to add extra fuel as you try and start. If it doesn't even splutter the issues is probably spark as mentioned above.

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Hi trogboy, thanks for getting back.

I took a look at a spare carb I have and that one seems to do the same with the nozzles both squirting fuel so I decided to take the car off again and think the gasket paper iv used is the wrong type as the whole gasket was wet also I need to get some silicone sealant to seal the insulating plate onto the inlet manifold as that has also been leaking so this may not be helping the problem. After that I decided to take a look at a 2 of the spark plugs and both of them where sooty and black so the carb has been running rich but I'm not sure how as there no adjustment screw that I'm aware of, I read something about the float level if its set too high the carb will run rich also I took a look at the carb jet sizes. On my old carb the jets were 117 and 130 and that never seemed to run rich but the one that's on the car now has jet sizes of 122 and 130 are these set right or would these also be making it run rich?

Sorry for the long winded explanations.

Thanks Matt.

[Toddy 7]

Mixture screw is on the bulkhead side.

 

Those jet sizes are ok, early and revised sizes, from memory better lower down with the 122.

 

The ignition amp is attached to the distributor, I would unscrew and check for any corrosion on the connecting pins.

 

Try starting it with a can of easy start then you can eliminate problems on the ignition side, or not.

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Ok I will have look to see if there is a spark tomorrow.another things is when I took out the spark plugs today I also noticed the pistons still looked wet with petrol even after leaving it overnight.

Also what do you mean by ignition amp?

[Toddy 7]

The ignition amp (small black box) is attached to the side of the distributor, there will be a loom plug attached to power this

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

So today I put the carb back in and sealed it properly and tried to start it again but still nothing but the carb didn't seem to leak so there's one plus side. I then decided to check the dizzy cap and rotor arm, the cap looked fine but the metal bit on the rotor arm that makes the contact most of it looked slightly corroded except for one small bit of clean metal (I assume the only bit touching the electrodes in the cap)

So I cleaned it up and put it back together again and decided to check the spark again, I started off with the second spark plug along and I'm pretty sure I saw blue in the spark, I then tried the first spark plug and that spark was a weak orange colour so I'm assuming this is why it won't start.

Is this the rotor arm causing the problem by possibly not making proper contact on all of the electrodes in the cap or could it still be either the ignition amp or coil?

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

I'd start with the rotor arm because they're cheap, and then work your way through the ignition one thing at a time

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

I think iv narrowed it down to the rotor arm like you say, I bought a new dizzy cap today but the car still wouldn't start so I took the cap off again and noticed the rotor arm had barely touched the electrodes in the cap, there where only a few light scuff marks on 2 of the electrodes.

Do you know/have a pic of the rotor arm I'm supposed to be using as there are quite a few out there?

Thanks.

[DamirGTI 327]

The rotor arm doesn't touch the dizzy cap terminal , there must be an air gap for the spark to jump over .

 

Try - undo the HT lead (coil - to - dizzy cap) , and stick inside an spark plug on the lead end (leave the other end connected onto the coil) , earth the spark plug and crank the engine - big blue spark should be there while cranking if the coil is fine also the ignition amp. .

 

My suspect would be the ignition amp.

 

D

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Thanks for the reply, I will try and test the coil tonight, if it was the ignition amp how would I be able to tell if it is faulty, and how would it stop the car from starting if there is a spark?

Thanks.

[DamirGTI 327]

Coils usually go bad whist driving when the engine reaches operating temp. .. often seems to be heat related .

Ignition amp. , with this one the list goes from dead no start , hard start to misfiring under load , cutting out , weak spark ect. also heat related but not always .. i've had a lot of scenarios with the bad ignition amp .

 

http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles.html/_/articles-guides/engine-related/what-is-the-ignition-amplifier-r89

 

Problem is , you can't really 'test' one in order to check if it's bad or not , best to try and replace it with an known good spare amp. (taking care to re-apply the thermal transfer paste at the back of the amp) , and see what happens .

 

The spark could be present , but might be weak thus not sufficient to ignite the mixture (especially on an engine with carb) or the spark may occur at the wrong place or time .

 

Tried starting it up with an easy start spray ?

 

D

Edited November 19, 2015 by DamirGTI

[cti_jim 4 2 Cars]

+1 on the ignition amp, my brother had similar problems with his 309 1.3

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Right ok ill will try and get a spare one to try after iv checked the coil, no I haven't tried easy start yet, would it be advisable to try it aswell?

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

So today I tried the spark plug on the end of the lead on the coil and the spark looked blue and bright so the coil looks fine so I tried each spark plug in the ht leads with the coil plugged back onto the distributor and the sparks were not all the same, some looked orange and weak and some looked fine and sometimes they were a bit intermittent. Does this sound like a faulty ignition amp?

[DamirGTI 327]

Yes , easy start spray will help finding out (roughly) if theres a fueling or spark issue - spray some in the carb and crank it over .

 

If it starts on a spray and runs for a second and die , then there is a spark but lacks fuel .

If it doesn't start , not even a cough , then theres a spark problem (no spark , weak spark , fouled plugs , leads/dizzy cap/rotor , coil , ignition amp. , dizzy pick up coil etc.)

 

D

[DamirGTI 327]

If the plugs , leads , dizzy cap and rotor are good then , yes .. i'd try with an known good spare amp.

 

Did you mix up the lead orientation on the dizzy cap by any chance ?

 

D

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

The leads should be right, when I changed the cap I changed one lead at a time plus it wasn't starting before I touched the dizzy cap and rotor arm, I think it's has something to do with a weak spark because it's like there's nothing trying to ignite the fuel as all of the plugs are soaked in peteol.

[DamirGTI 327]

If the plug tips are wet , yes , it'll be spark issue .. test replace the ignition amp. with an known good one and see if it starts .

 

D

[matty205xs 1 1 Cars]

Hi again, I haven't got round to trying another ignition amp yet but was wondering if the wrong rotor arm would have a difference to the spark, my old one had a wider metal bit on the end of the rotor arm would this change anything?