Building A Hill Climb Engine

[jonb_5 6]

Morning

 

I have been considering options for my hill climb 205 and currently compete in the 1.4 - 1.8 class. I would like to stay in this class so from advise and my budget I have 2 options.

 

1.6 XU Engine

1.6 TU Engine

 

Now the TU would enable me to have 16 valves so this is what I am exploring.

 

The only issue is I would have to use a TU3 block to stay within the regs.

 

Can I bore out the TU3 block and use larger piston and the TU5 crank and rods to enlarge the capacity or something similar?

 

Any ideas welcome?

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[welshpug 1,737]

spanner in the works...

 

you can do 16v xu too.

 

what kind of budget do you have?

Edited September 18, 2015 by welshpug

[jonb_5 6]

I initially read about a 16 valve XU but was soon puy off because everything I read suggested it would be too expensive.

 

In terms of budget I wouldn't mind sinking up to a couple of grand into an engine, i just want to make sure I build the right one and the right spec hence all of the questions.

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[welshpug 1,737]

actually, I had a thought, seeing as your class structure allows an 1800, you could re-block an XU7J4 into the XU5/9 block, if you're on a budget then just have the valve cutouts made a bit deeper, mild cams like a PH2 with a gti6 head.

 

might get around 180 bhp with that, my 2.0 with the same cams is about 200, Sandy has built one running over 230 bhp which would have forged rods pistons and a worked over xu7 head, and custom manifolds

[jonb_5 6]

Now that sounds interesting! The only question being how difficult is it to get a gti6 head to fit in the XU block. The information I have read suggests that's this is the difficult bit?

 

Do you have any info on this?

 

Also, the longer stroke of the XU7 internally, would this suggest the sump would also need a spacer like the 1.9?

 

Appreciate all the help and advice!

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[Anthony 1,003]

GTi-6 head will physically bolt up to any XU block - that's the easy bit.

 

The spacer on the sump is nothing to do with the stroke - it's for strengthening the block. The sump is shallower by the same depth as the spacer, so the overall depth and oil capacity is the same.

[calvinhorse 870]

Great thread!

[jonb_5 6]

I have done a bit if searching and it seems the problem with putting the gti-6 head on the XU block is the cam belt tensioner and engine mount? Is this correct?

 

If so does this mean it is not really possible?

[welshpug 1,737]

I had a thought, I have no idea where that 1800 race engine is these days, but I know its not in the 306 it was built for.

[welshpug 1,737]

gti6 is an xu.

 

a mount of some sort would need fabricating as the blocks vary, so a 16v bracket wont fit directly.

 

not 100% on the tensioners, rear one isnt a problem, front one may need a hole adding.

[SimonJ 2]

http://www.pugsforsale.co.uk/ads/srd-hillclimbsprintrace-or-insane-road-car-engine/

[jonb_5 6]

It seems like it may not be too big of a job then. I have access to a full toolroom and welding facilities at work so making up brackets etc is not an issue.

 

That engine looks awesome and looks like an 8v aswell, so pretty decent power, I wonder what block it is based on in terms of fitting in with regs etc.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

http://www.pugsforsale.co.uk/ads/srd-hillclimbsprintrace-or-insane-road-car-engine/

Mi16 pistons concern me....

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

It seems like it may not be too big of a job then. I have access to a full toolroom and welding facilities at work so making up brackets etc is not an issue.

 

That engine looks awesome and looks like an 8v aswell, so pretty decent power, I wonder what block it is based on in terms of fitting in with regs etc.

Looks like the funny 405 down draught head on it?! Which funnily enough I didn't even know existed until the other night when I saw one.

 

 

Is Baz's 1800 mass engine still forsale?

Edited September 18, 2015 by allanallen

[Biggles 65]

Why are you limited to the TU3 block ? MSA regs for Road-Going Series Production Cars are "the cylinder block and cylinder head must remain in the original position and be externally identifiable as that fitted to the original model or specified option" - so you can use any block that was fitted to a 205 ...

[jonb_5 6]

Hi

 

Not limited to the TU3, could use the XU5 or 9 also I believe.

 

Don't think there were any others?

[Biggles 65]

Sorry - misread what you'd posted - ignore me (everyone else does :-) )

[Tom Fenton 1,650]

Be worth finding out exactly how stringent those regs are.

Did the later 205's use an iron block TU? If so then is any iron block TU allowable? So 1600 TU?

Likewise the 205 GTI had an alloy XU, so is any alloy XU eg XU7 allowed?

The 205 diesel had an iron XU, so is any iron XU eg XU10 gti6 block allowed?

[jonb_5 6]

Yeah, I think confirmation of that would be useful because I could then maybe get away with running the XU7 engine as it with just a change of head. End up being alot cheaper aswell.

 

I guess the difference visually between and XU5 and XU7 block is very minimal anyway.

[Biggles 65]

Not that I would encourage such things but policing is not rigourous - I know someone who ran an Mi16 quite successfully in place of an XU5.

[jonb_5 6]

That's the confusing thing, there's are a fair few people in the class above running 16 valve heads but obviously no idea what block they are running.

[welshpug 1,737]

The 205 that runs Sandy's 1400 16v is using an iron 205 block, Colin's 2.0 is using an XUD block, as the XU10 was never used in a 205, though bore and stroke is different to what you can achieve with an XU10 anyway.

[jonb_5 6]

Done a fair bit of research the past few days and with alot of input I have a basic engine spec pencilled which should give a good performance, engine longevity and budget friendly aswell as adhering to the regs.

 

The use of any block not originally fitted to the 205 is not permitted and even though may go un-noticed I wouldn't feel comfortable in future years potentially winning an event with an illegal engine.

 

XU5 engine block

XU7JP4 pistons (modified) and crank

GTI6 Cylinder Head - With head work depending on budget.

Cam shaft to be decided - opinions welcome.

Webber Carbs - 40's or 45's?

Engine management - Mega jolt?

 

Any opinions or suggestions please chip in!

 

Thanks

 

Jon

Edited September 20, 2015 by jonb_5

[welshpug 1,737]

45mm jenveys, satchell inlet manifold. DTA S40.

 

You wont be able to go more than something like a Newman PH2 cam, 1, valve to piston clearance, 2, peak lift is just short of valve spring coilbound.

 

 

unless you go for a different piston (and rod) and change the valve springs, then you can go to a PH4 or similar.

[Tom Fenton 1,650]

Firstly I think you are right to err on the side of legality. However it's not just a moral thing, if you do become competitive and challenging to win then you can bet your back teeth that if the block isn't legal then another competitor will put a protest in to get you chucked out.

 

On your spec.

Firstly I think compression ratio may prove an issue in getting it high enough. You'll have to go the maths with the cyl head chamber and piston etc.

Secondly why would you want to use Webers, any of the ECU's out there will give far better fuelling and ignition control,