Damper Settings - Recommendations For A Circuit Car

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

People do fill their tyres with pure nitrogen?? I don't because I don't have the facilities to adjust my tyre pressures whilst at an event/circuit, I've never looked into it but I'm guessing to buy/rent a bottle and paying to have it filled with nitrogen would outweigh any the benefits i'd see at my level.

[aldworth33 45 1 Cars]

But nitrogen is a lot more stable and runs cooler in track conditions so just was a thought when everyone was mentioning tyre pressures. When I went to get argon for my last work I asked and they said for 10ltr canister it was 18quid plus vat so sure that would be enough to regulate pressure on the day?

[parry 23 1 Cars]

Always bleed out tire pressure when hot and leave it there until the next run. The cold temps vary depending on weather temps. Are Yoko A050s available in the UK, they are 2secs faster than a 48 at my local track.

[SweetBadger 91]

I don't think we can get A050s over here I'm afraid, and they're not listed in the 1a/1b permitted tyres so no good for use in the series I'm in.

 

Shame, as they look like quite an improvement over the A048s.

[parry 23 1 Cars]

What a shame, in Australia they do not sell A048s anymore....No one buys them! They are almost as quick as a Khumo medium slick, but spring rates need to be changed to suit the tyre.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Your hot pressure will also vary dependant on temperature Parry.

 

The biggest problem using just any old air compressor is the moisture content within it - if you always use the same compressor to fill your tyres and adjust the pressures then it's not to worry as you will be fairly consistent - moisture content will vary between compressors though so these pressures will not always transfer.

 

You'll find that dry/conditioned air (as per most tyre fitters at circuits use) will give very similar results to 'pure' nitrogen due to the low moisture content, just look at the nitrogen content of oxygen (75% region I believe). The moisture content is what mainly gives you vast variances in cold/hot pressure.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Great result at the weekend. Wish I could have been there!

[SweetBadger 91]

 

Hi, cheers, yep really pleased with how the race went. Was actually pretty happy that we even made the race at all, as I managed to roll the car onto it side after putting it into a gravel trap at paddock hill on a trackday the week before (amazingly just a slightly crumpled wing to show for it), and then managed to slip a disc in my back the Monday before (while getting up off the sofa... getting old sucks)! So third in class was a bonus! :-) We were actually 2nd in class when the race was ended (red flagged due to a lot of cars going off at Druids all at once), but I think they classified the race on the position we were in a lap before, so we never got the place. Next time...

 

Really enjoyed racing on the gp circuit - lots of close racing, fantastic track, great fun, and a lot of action (a number of cars met with a bit of Armco or a gravel trap, and there was a safety car out at one point). I can see why you like racing there so much. Couldn't get anywhere near your lap time though, my fastest lap was 1:48.8; I was getting quicker before the change over so there's definitely more to come from the car with improving my driving, but not sure there's over 2 seconds a lap to come without some more go-faster mods to it.

 

With mechanical failures to a minimum it was nice to just focus on the race for a change, although there had to be something - the gear linkage that bolts to the subframe managed to work its way loose on the way to the track, thankfully sorted it before the race. Going to treat it to a satchshift before donnington in September:-), will hopefully keep it happy!

 

Getting to grips with tyre pressures now, and have more idea of what playing with the damper setting do -stiffened up the front and rear from the setup we had at Snetterton, rear benefited but wish I'd left the fronts softer as there was a bit too much turn in understeer for my liking.

 

Donnington GP next.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Glad you enjoyed it. Sorry to hear about your misfortune though, I assume beacuse you were able to race your on the mend?

 

I was able to knock a second off my time with minor car changes, spring rate etc... and probably a second of that came from reflection and going bk for the 2nd time. I did do a video of my fastest lap side by side with fastest lap and about 0.5 sec came at druids alone with the rest made up over the rest of the lap.

 

the GP loop is a trciky one especially for us unexperienced as you want neutral to oversteer for druids, graham hill and the bit out onto the GP and back onto the indy and tge left before that. But the rest of the track is pretty daunting if you feel you cant keep the rear in check. Ive spent the whole of my 205 endeavours trying to dial out understeer anyway and its fianlly at a point of driving ok without major work to rejig the whole thing. Looks like your getting to that stage pretty qucikly!

 

I got a quote for rear dampers off proflex £1350 as ive now decided the tarmac billys arnt up to the job.

Donnington another great track. Craners are awesome and take some balls to go flat from redgate. Ill be racing at Oulton Park on 3rd October, not sure if that overlaps with MSVR stuff? But my competition has some mega built engines and cars so gonna use it to see how competetive the car is and see if I need to spend some dollar!

 

One day will see you in the paddock! these 205s getting rare now so keep it up.

 

Henry.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Henry, which Tarmac billies are you on, the group A 306 ones are pretty awesome on my car, but I accept that you are far far ahead in terms of development.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Thats a good point Tom hadn't even thought of that option although I'm not entirely sure what Iv'e got at the moment, could well be 306 ones. I will get the codes off the side and send you a pm if you wouldnt mind confirming for me?

 

Thanks

Henry.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

There are other options than just Proflex for a decent set of rear dampers. It's mainly about the engineer that designs the valving and the end user understanding the characteristics of adjustment.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

I realise that Ed. Was just an example. I will be looking into other options, as always its trying to get value out of it. If it makes me 2 tenths quicker but costs a grand I'm not that interested. Theres more than 2 tenths to come from my driving and track knowlege. Same reason why I havn't bothered doing the brakes tbh. Its still a floppy shelled 205 at the end of the day!

[SweetBadger 91]

Henry just noticed that you're brands gp time is still the tdt lap record!

 

Afraid that we're at oulton on 24th oct so no overlap there.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Just got back from Oulton weekend. Wow what a track, first time out and had to learn it in a damp foggy 15min quali session. Pretty good fun its probably now my new faveourite track over brands shame its so far away! for me at least.

 

You'll love it. 205 feels so good through the 2nd chicane section. I got to race another 205 as well! woop. and we were about equal on outright pace I think: 1:58.6 was my best and just checked he was about 8 tenths quicker in ultimate pace and over the race distance he had the legs on me. His car did weight about 70kg less though (getting excuses in early) was an 8v as well with a very pokey engine!

 

enjoy

Edited October 4, 2015 by Henry 1.9GTi

[SweetBadger 91]

Nice, can't wait now! I've done a track day there ages ago and remember it being a great track, but I can't really remember the circuit. Looking at previous times from track day trophy I'd say 1:58.6 is a seriously respectable time - most of the class A cars are struggling to get near that! I think we'll have our work cut out to get under the 2 minute mark.

 

Must have been good to race another 205, we had a bit of a play with another 205 at Donington GP on a Friday track day before we were due to race there which was great fun (unfortunately by the end of the day all of the 205s there had been towed off the track due to major breakdowns!).

 

It's the last tdt race of the season so we get 30 mins practice, 30 mins qualifying, 1 x 45 min race and then a final 45 min race where the grid is reversed! Should be great if I can get the car sorted in time and providing the car holds out for the whole day!

 

Pity I'm still unsure if we have a working engine at the mo (the flywheel tried to escape the Friday before Donington GP ). Fingers crossed the replacement crank I just fitted is all it needs, otherwise it'll be a desperate rush to fit a new engine! I have plans for a new engine build over the winter, so could do with the current one pulling through for one more race.

 

Other things we need to address are:

 

- Driving position (need a deeper steering wheel so we can move the seat further back)

- The bloody pedals! heel - toe is nigh-on impossible at the mo. The brake pedal ends up far too low compared with the accelerator.

 

Have you done anything with your pedal arrangement to make it easier to heel - toe? I'm thinking of either getting a pedal box, or modifying the accelerator pedal travel.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

I havn't touched the pedals tbh and never had a problem. One thing that made it harder was I tried some DS3000 pads (cost down!) and really didn't get on with them. Rubbish initial bite, squishy pedal which made it harder to heel toe. They didnt fade and had good stopping power but the CL Brakes RC6 just give you that instant pedal.

 

One thing to try as well which had made me a lot better in braking as the car is more consistent is get into the habit of tapping the brake gently once or twice with your left foot down the straights. Not sure if you are still on standard sliding calipers like myself but bouncing over kerbs induces a lot of pad knock off. This gives a very long pedal and again makes heel and toe less consistent.

 

Fitting a quick release will give you 50-60mm extension on the wheel and has the added benefit of being able to get out easier! Bear in mind the longer the extension the higher the wheel will be, Ive spaced my column down on the existing studs as much as I can as my seat is basically on the floor.

 

That is a lot of track time! Hope the car survives have a good one.

 

Henry.

[SweetBadger 91]

Thanks again for the tips. I think the pedal issue is mostly down to the throttle having more travel due to the throttle bodies and therefore it sits higher up.

 

We run DS3000s on standard calipers and I do find the pedal feel a bit squishy, but never had any complaints about the stopping power - std brakes are more than up to the job with them. Will try tapping the brakes on the straights and see if it helps with the pedal feel. I did find it very difficult to find the balance between hard braking and locking up in the wet at Donongton though - resulted in an embarrassing trip into the gravel :-(.

 

How do the CL pads compare wear wise - I've been impressed with the CL5 pads before so would like to give the cl6 pads a go but they're almost twice the price of the ds3000s! It's Depenant on the circuit but we get about 2 races out of a set of ds3000s (not including qualifying).

[welshpug 1,626]

my experience of the rc6 was very good on a friends car, he said pads were one set for two rotors!

 

They do munch through a softer disc, rc5 arent as abrasive id imagine.

Edited October 5, 2015 by welshpug

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

ive tried rc5 on 2 different cars and thought they were rubbish tbh. Would not stop the 205 at all and in my Renault became dangerous to the point they couldn't set the abs off in the wet with massive pedal effort. So will never ever get those again.

 

rc6 on the other hand have been really good. Get about the same life as you say 1 weekend plus another quali session. Mine wear quite badly in a wedge so I flip them side to side and carrier to piston side before it gets too bad. This can lead to a long pedal again for a few laps as they wear flat again!

 

I have found the brembo oem discs to work a hell of a lot better than the pagid euro car parts discs with the rc6. Pagid would either warp, crack or score badly enough to warrent changing. I change discs with every pad change. However looking at these brembos I think they are good for another set of pads. And they are cheaper as well at £30 a pair! Bargain.

 

Honestly try some RC6 the difference over the DS3000 is immense.

 

Ive been considering the DS1.11 though as they are in the middle price wise, so fancied trying them out. Probably will at some point next year.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Henry 1.9GTi

[SweetBadger 91]

I have a spare set of DS 3000s so they'll have to do to finish off the season. The CL6s are on the shopping list for next year.

 

I enquired about the DS1.11 as they look like they could be a good option, but there was a minimum order qty of 10 sets with Kam Racing, and Demon Tweeks have a lead time of 45 days! Not the easiest things to get hold of!

 

I might get a set ordered for the start of next season and give them a try, will post back with results if I do.

[parry 23 1 Cars]

ive tried rc5 on 2 different cars and thought they were rubbish tbh. Would not stop the 205 at all and in my Renault became dangerous to the point they couldn't set the abs off in the wet with massive pedal effort. So will never ever get those again.

 

rc6 on the other hand have been really good. Get about the same life as you say 1 weekend plus another quali session. Mine wear quite badly in a wedge so I flip them side to side and carrier to piston side before it gets too bad. This can lead to a long pedal again for a few laps as they wear flat again!

 

I have found the brembo oem discs to work a hell of a lot better than the pagid euro car parts discs with the rc6. Pagid would either warp, crack or score badly enough to warrent changing. I change discs with every pad change. However looking at these brembos I think they are good for another set of pads. And they are cheaper as well at £30 a pair! Bargain.

 

Honestly try some RC6 the difference over the DS3000 is immense.

 

Ive been considering the DS1.11 though as they are in the middle price wise, so fancied trying them out. Probably will at some point next year.

You get 1 event on your pads! I have a very quick 205 and my pads have never wore out, I change them due to heat cycles and loss of retardation. Normally after 2 seasons.

Edited October 6, 2015 by parry

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

perhaps you have much larger brakes? Less heat, lower wear rate usually. I have to change my dust seals every season as they have usually melted

[parry 23 1 Cars]

perhaps you have much larger brakes? Less heat, lower wear rate usually. I have to change my dust seals every season as they have usually melted

307HDI setup, running currently Project Mu pad with pedal box. Car is 800kgs with over 250hp. getting 1G in braking force

[petert 554]

perhaps you have much larger brakes? Less heat, lower wear rate usually. I have to change my dust seals every season as they have usually melted

I think you need to step up a level in brake pad material. Parry runs Project Mu, we run Endless. They're much the same in terms of quality and cost, for similar friction ratings. We just got 3+ years out of ours in GTi6 format.