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commievid

Where To Get Decent Fuel Hose?

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commievid

Hi all,

 

Jumped into the car this morning, and it sputtered to a stop as soon as it fired up. Then took about 30-45 seconds of cranking before the car came back to life.

 

It's been fine since, but a look in the engine bay is suggesting a possible cause:

 

P_20150302_130609_zps7zmeximt.jpg

 

P_20150302_130613_zpshyqttkbu.jpg

 

P_20150302_130618_zpsf7clf8kn.jpg

Signs of cracking around the rubber hoses for the feed.

 

Most frighteningly:

 

P_20150302_130635_zpsmpakv7x5.jpg

 

There's also cracking where the hose is connected to the hard line, right next to the exhaust manifold.

 

Now, the labelling on the hoses must suggest they're the correct type, SAE J30R9. These were bought around September 2013, so a year and a half ago, as part of changing the fuel filter to a smaller one for ease of maintenance.

 

It shouldn't be this soon for this happening? I bought the fuel hoses from eBay, so I'm thinking I bought some rubbish quality or even worse, simply relabelled of a different type.

 

I don't know if there's any direct correlation between the state of these hoses and the troublesome starting of the car, but even so, these hoses need changing.

 

Anyone know where to get a decent branded bunch? Quick googling hasn't returned anything definitive so far.

 

Many thanks!

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dcc

Alex @ Torques

 

he also told me that your general run of the mill rubber lined fuel hose will only have a shelf life of 2years now. teflon lined hose will last for a good 6-8 years.

 

but I don't think that was your issue. check your fuel pump for being healthy and check your CPS & CTS

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GLPoomobile

Hmmmm. I had stainless overbraid fuel hose on mine, bought from VWP IIRC. I guess it must have been on the car a good 3-4 years, but when I came to move it after it had been stood for a year or so the fuel just pissed out everywhere.

 

This is interesting.

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Anthony

I'd love to know what's changed on rubber vehicle parts over the last 10-20 years or so.

 

The original fuel lines are still in good order on my 23 year old 205, as are all the original rubber bits on my 306, but frequently I see similar to what's pictured above where any replacement rubber parts - be that hose, gaitors, boots or whatever - are perishing and splitting within 2-3 years.

 

Have they banned some additive or forced x% recycled content or something?

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welshpug

does help that at least one of the feed pipes in the engine bay of a 205 are plastic not rubber!

 

I have seen quite a few leaks on the fuel tank end where those pipes have perished, the return pipe engine end I have seen in a poor state but the pressure here is negligable and indeed the o.e hose does last so much longer.

Edited by welshpug

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dcc

Alex mentioned that there are additives in the fuel that now eat into rubber pipe

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jamie_1992

exactly the same happened to me, got some off ebay and within a year it was cracked and the inlet hose had doubled in size where it has been under pressure. i have replaced all mine with teflon braided now so will see how long that lasts.

DSC_0107_zpsc26f1531.jpg

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welshpug

Alex mentioned that there are additives in the fuel that now eat into rubber pipe

 

 

certainly there does seem to be a higher ethanol content than there used to be but still the hoses should last longer than they do and the o.e ones still seem to cope.

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jamie_1992

think it seems like most things these days as "they dont make them like they use to"

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commievid

Thanks for the replies. Definitely need to sort out the hoses, though raising the pump as a possibility, another thing to keep an eye on. Could have been a one off.

 

Changing the fuel pump shouldn't be terribly difficult, I'd like to think? I know there's a couple of holes under the rear seats, presumably for the pump and level sender?

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Anthony

Yes. Easy enough job, but if you've never done it, get a couple of replacement fuel line clips before hand.

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Ryan

All the unbranded hose on ebay (and sold by most motor factors it seems) which has nothing except "W = whatever" printed on it is cheap Chinese crap, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's exactly the same stuff they were claiming was "R7" five years ago, and "R6" ten years ago. Any quality hose will have the manufacturer's name on it.

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base-1

I've had issues with hoses perishing like this also. Scared the bejesus out of me 8 years ago when my white 1.9 caught fire because the return hose failed when I was stop-starting in traffic. I assume that was the original hose from 1988

 

On my Miami 1.6 (1991) I noticed the return hose was cracked as in OP's photos, but much worse. Replaced it a year or two ago, and noticed recently that the new stuff is now just as bad. Very annoying and disconcerting.

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Ryan

Goodyear, Goodrich, and Codan all make good R9 hose, but for some reason it seems to be difficult to find in the UK. You're better off buying branded R7 than unbranded (probably fake) R9.

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Tom Fenton

The standard clips are stainless steel, very good, and also re useable. Get a pair of the "clic" type pliers then you can do an OE job.

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commievid

Just had a quick gander, fuel pump looks to have had something done to it in the past as there's more traditional clips over the pump rather than the clic types.

 

Might entertain the clic type hoses though. Question is where would get some in small quantities? Only place I've found sell them in batches of 25, bit too much for a couple of clips.

 

AFS sell this "100% bio fuel" hose that seems to have quite a larger markup than the other hoses they sell, including "R9". I'll sacrifice myself and give these a go, but I'm starting to genuinely fear that these are about to become service items the way things are going.

 

Probably some conspiracy in order to force us into newer cars that won't suddenly burst into flames.

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Ryan

I bought "R9" hose from AFS about 2 years ago and when it turned up it was the same crappy unbranded "W=J30R9" stuff as you get on ebay, so I sent it back. I'd give them a call and ask them for the manufacturer of any hose before buying. If they won't name them, or claim it's their own brand then steer clear. The bio fuel stuff might be a safer bet, but again I'd want to know who actually made it first.

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commievid

Ok, the expensive hose from AFS appear to be branded. "Cohline 2240". So at least they're a real company.

 

Now apparently, this 2240 hose complies with DIN 73379-3E, which suggests Bio-Diesel!

 

73379-3D is supposed to be for Bio-(Ethanol)-Fuel, and equivalent to the J30R9.

 

Urgh, regardless, I got a bit fed up and decided to install this onto the car anyway. Just took it for a drive and I haven't exploded in a ball of flame yet. Didn't think something as important as fuel hose would be nigh on impossible to get right.

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Anthony

Double check that it is definitely rated for injection fuel pressures - older diesels are like carb equipped petrols in that they didn't run pressurised fuel lines, and if you start putting 3 bar odd of pressure through it can swell and burst.

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commievid

Ok, found this:

 

http://www.cohline-uk.org/AFHC_2013_Teil_2.pdf

 

Which shows that 2240 has a working pressure of 10bar, and a bursting pressure of 50bar, for the 7.3mm and 9.3mm diameter hoses I've used.

 

It also says underneath the table for 2240 that it is "Suitable for commercial fuels (for ethanol too) and Bio-diesel...E 10 fuel too" which hopefully covers the right fuel.

 

So hopefully it is the right hose. Just need to keep an eye on it still, especially near the manifold, as it is quite hot there.

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Anthony

That'll be fine pressure wise.

 

I put a heatproof covering over the bulkhead fuel lines on my 205 GTi-6 as I was concerned about the heat from the manifold. It should be fine on the move as there should be sufficient airflow to keep everything cool, but certainly on the dyno or similar where you've limited airflow and a very hot manifold I can see temperatures easily getting close to or exceeding the ratings of that hose.

 

Certainly on mine, even with a heat wrapped manifold, the plastic bulkhead bung (covering where the 8v engine loom originally came out) has started to melt and that's only through road use. The fuel lines aren't much further away than that.

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