Ew10J4S + Which Gearbox

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

Hi guys, have searched however cannot find the answer I'm looking for..... so after some enlightenment.

 

I have an EW10J4S engine (206gti180), and its going into a 205. It came with the gearbox that it had in the 206 and I'm after some advice as want to use a gripper diff in the end result... so..

 

1) what gearbox do I have and can I get a gripper diff for it?

2) would i be able to use a be3 gearbox, would there be benefit?

 

Thanks guys

 

Richard.

[welshpug 1,626]

Its a be4 box, you need to use that due to the angle and bellhousing pattern.

 

BE aftermarket diffs will fit any generation of be box.

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

Great stuff, thank you for the quick response Mei. Do we know if the be4 is more advanced than a be3 in terms of being able to take 'spirited driving' with sticky tyres, increased torque etc., or would an aftermarket gearkit be advised, and if so any suggestions?

 

Richard.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Same as the BE1 and BE3, thankfully not some of the late BE3's or BE4's like the 6 speed box for example are not great at all

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

I've just read through Sandys thread, Embrace the EW and there's talk on there about using the be4 bell housing with everything else from a be3? Just curious as would this not make the gearbox mount line up?

 

Sorry for dragging up an old thread!

[welshpug 1,626]

the bellhousing and diff case is a separate part to the centre section which the mounting stud is screwed into, that section always sits at the same angle regardless of the bellhousing type.

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

Oh right, so actually the be4 used in the 206 gti, when fitted to the ew10j4s will line up fine in the 205??

 

Thanks for replying so quick Mei!

Edited September 4, 2014 by timoth123

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

If you are putting an EW10J4S plus BE4 into a 205, the gearbox mount lines up, as does the lower fork however this needs to be modified for length. Additionally, the engine sits more upright (15%?) as opposed to c30% like a 8v, mi16 etc, and to that end the top mount will need to be fabricated to fit.

 

Richard.

[welshpug 1,626]

You can buy mounts

[Anthony 1,000]

You can buy mounts

Who sells them out of interest Mei? I know the likes of Colin could custom fabricate one easily enough, but I've never seen anyone selling an off the shelf mount to fit an EW engine into a 205/306/309?

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

Colin did mine for me.

 

Richard

[welshpug 1,626]

Yeah, they have a jig to make one I believe

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

Awesome. That's cleared up a lot in a oner!

 

I'm thinking ahead to the next project as the restoration is nearing an end..........ish.

 

How would someone get in touch with Colin? I've seen Colin and Sandys name used a lot on here but never actually known where you might find them?

[S@m 156]

I have often wondered if Citroen themselves make a top mount that would be suitable for mounting an EW in a 205. The only reason i say that is that very late (and possibly LHD) xsara's had the EW10J4 engine fitted, as we all know they also had the XU10J4RS engine fitted prior, the xsara chassis rails retain the same part number between both these engines.

 

I'm sure you can see where i am going with this; given that the xu10j4rs lifts straight from the xsara into a 205 then surely the xsara EW top engine mount would allow an EW engine to also fit in a 205. Have i overlooked something crucial here?

 

For anyone with Citroen service who fancies a look at what i mean, the part number of the top mount i am refering to is 1807J3. It is only found on late xsara's and ew engined xsara picasso's. I have seen an EW engined picasso in the flesh and the mount does look suitable but until someone tries it, i cannot say for sure...i've never seen an EW engined xsara though, as i said i think they never came to the uk.

 

AFAIK the xsara is the only model that had both the XU and EW engines fitted.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Sam306

[welshpug 1,626]

The mounting cradle in a ph2 xsara is in s different location

[Anthony 1,000]

Phase 2 Xsara VTS's had a different top mount arm than 306's and Phase 1 Xsara's with the same engine, presumably as the mount on the shell is in a different place to suit the later EW engines. Thus I suspect the Xsara EW arm won't fit, but that's only an educated guess.

[welshpug 1,626]

Satchell engineering have a fb page

[S@m 156]

And that is what i have overlooked, curses! I was unaware that you had to swap the top mount to fit a ph2 xsara xu10 engine into a 205 - now i know.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

What about 406's as they used that engine too,

Gearbox wise as said any BE internals will swap around to a degree, I've got 206 GTi gear set in a 6 speed case with a 4.8CWP and a couple of other small detail things to make it work

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

Satchell engineering have a fb page

Perfect! Thanks Mei.

[S@m 156]

What about 406's as they used that engine too,

 

 

Good point, forgot about the 406 being another model that had both the XU and EW engines, however, i discounted it with regard to providing a suitable top engine mount because even the 406 XU one is unsuitable for use in a 205.

 

Looks like it is go custom or nothing. The closest to standard i've seen so far is the one Hilgie did, it's modified but at least it isn't fabricated completely from scratch........i may just stick with the Mi at this rate.

[welshpug 1,626]

Read back a few posts, things are available

[S@m 156]

I saw that Satchell engineering do one, but with two mi16's and two 8v xu9's lying about i might aswell use what i already have despite how alluring the EW may seem. An EW would also force my hand into getting standalone management straight away, although that isn't the biggest of issues since i intend to do so with any XU i choose eventually aswell, just means i can't run it on standard management first.

 

Decisions, decisions.

[Anthony 1,000]

I'm not convinced that it would be that hard to get the GTi-180 multiplex management working in a 205, but you'd certainly need a complete donor car so that you could plug PP2000 into it and disable all the bits on the bus that it would be expecting to see.

 

I'm tempted to give a 180 conversion a shot myself if a suitable donor turned up as I simply don't enjoy the GTi-6 engine I've got now, but like you, with a couple of Mi16's (one of which is fully rebuilt with only 1500 miles under its belt) sat in the garage so it seems a bit silly not to use them when they suit a 205 so well.

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

So is there any difference between the Be4's fitted to the ew10j4 (the 206 gti 138) or the ew10j4s (206 gti 180)?

 

Would there be a code on the box I could identify as the correct one to fit?

And what's the likelihood of that gearbox being fitted to lower powered car like say a 206 xs or Roland garros for example?

( I only ask as the bomb disposal team on unit have a few 206s lying around they use for practice with the robots, could get the required box out of them if the are the same.)