Bennefits From A 16 Gearbox

[kachel 5]

I have seen GTI´s with 1.9 D6B engine where a 1.6 gearbox is mounted.

What are the advantages of a 1.6 gearbox on a 1.9 D6B engine?

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Hmm here's my 10 pence worth keep the 1.9 box if it's for the road I have a 1.6 fitted now it's crap can't see any benefits apart from it's slightly quick off the mark but not by a lot it drives me nut revving its nuts out at 80 again just my opinion some people like them for the bottom end

[Anthony 1,000]

The main difference between a 1.6 and 1.9 GTi gearbox is the final drive ratio, which is approximately 10% shorter on the 1.6.

 

The effect on the road is that the car feels more eager and accelerative, but at a cost of higher cruising rpm.

 

I've had 1.9 engines with a variety of gearboxes, including the original 1.9 and a 1.6, and am in two minds as to which is "best" - for track and occasional road use there certainly is a strong case for the 1.6, but as an all round choice primarily used on the road I think that the original box is well suited. In part it does depend on how good the 1.9 engine is, as there is a massive difference between a "good" one and one that is merely "average" in the way they pull at high rpm, a short ratio gearbox being wasted on an engine that doesn't want to rev (in my opinion anyhow).

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Well put ^^^^^

[kachel 5]

Thanks! So there´s no (real) acceleration advantage with a 1.6 gearbox on a normal road. And the comfort is dropping due to the high revs in the fifth gear.

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

That about nails it if your using it on the road stick with a 1.9

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

Thanks! So there´s no (real) acceleration advantage with a 1.6 gearbox on a normal road. And the comfort is dropping due to the high revs in the fifth gear.

There is a acceleration advantage at normal roadspeeds imo because with a 1.6 gearbox you are closer to the peak torque & power output of the engine, even on an "average" 1.9 but for track use I have the 1.6 gearbox fitted to mine.

 

TBH, the ~500rpm difference at cruising speed doesn't bother me but some will find it tiresome.

 

At the end of the day, it's down to how you to how you use the car & for a car used 90%+ of the time as a road car the standard box is best suited but you'll never know if you prefer the 1.6 box without trying it imo.

 

g

[welshpug 1,626]

I wouldn't say it was tiring, but it has a big impact on fuel consumption on standard engines, its almost as if it "comes on cam" so to speak.

 

Sure makes a hell of a lot more noise

 

 

I think my ideal box would be the gti6, 1-5 is nigh on identical to a 1.6 box but its too damn bulky so you lose a good chunk of RH lock.

[Anthony 1,000]

I wouldn't say it was tiring, but it has a big impact on fuel consumption on standard engines, its almost as if it "comes on cam" so to speak.

 

Sure makes a hell of a lot more noise

 

 

I think my ideal box would be the gti6, 1-5 is nigh on identical to a 1.6 box but its too damn bulky so you lose a good chunk of RH lock.

I've never found it more tiring with a 1.6 'box compared to a 1.9 - it's only 10% difference between them (~400rpm at 80mph) and with a standard or sensible-ish aftermarket exhaust it's really not an issue. After all, if you think about it, 1.6 GTi's were often used as company cars or the sole family car back in the day, and there were plenty of cars with shorter ratios (eg 205 XS).

 

A stripped out car with a loud boomy exhaust could well be another matter though.

 

Fuel economy I strangely noticed little difference between the two - within 1 mpg anyway. Indeed, whilst not directly comparable as they're not the same engine, the difference in average economy between my 205 1.9 GTi-S with the short-ish CTi 'box below and my 205 1.9 GTi with the original 1.9 'box is just 0.1 mpg over several thousand miles - 37.8 and 37.9 mpg respectively.

 

The gearbox that I like is the 1.9 CTi one that has a 3.94 final drive fitted - gives a 5th gear very similar to an Mi16 'box but keeps the close ratios of the GTi 'boxes. That's what I've currently got fitted to my 205 GTi-6 and that was previously fitted with my SBC 1.9 8v engine.

 

I do like the ratios on the GTi-6 gearbox, but the hopeless right hand steering lock makes it a non-starter for me. I'm not really convinced that you need the extra gear on a comparitviely torquey engine with a wide powerband anyway, but would no doubt benefit something that needs to be revved.

[dcc 855]

Just to add to this, i had a xsara vts phase 2 box on my old gti/ my new 8v. It certainly is a lot more pokey than a 1.9 box, and has a longer 5th than a 1.6 box.

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

Just to add to this, i had a xsara vts phase 2 box on my old gti/ my new 8v. It certainly is a lot more pokey than a 1.9 box, and has a longer 5th than a 1.6 box.

I've got a Be1 Mi16 box (pretty much same as a Xsara VTS box) on my ebay 1.6 GTI & think its a well suited box on that also, certainly one box I'm also considering for my 1.9 track car if I fancy a change.

 

g

[welshpug 1,626]

does look a good compromise.


gear speeds per 1000 rpm on standard 185 55 15 tyres as follows

mi16:

• 5.3 8.4 12.1 15.9 20.3

1.9

• 6.4 10.0 13.6 17.3 21.3

1.6 with 3.31 1st

• 5.1 9.0 12.4 15.8 19.4

1.6 with 2.92 1st.

• 5.8 9.0 12.4 15.8 19.4

gti6 4.05

• 5.8 9.0 12.0 14.7 17.8 21.1

gti6 3.95

• 5.9 9.3 12.3 15.1 18.2 21.7

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Ok so as I'm in need of a new box where and how much would a good one go for and would you need yo change anything to fit it straight to a 1,9 8v

Edited November 26, 2013 by amusingadam

[kachel 5]

How to handle the difference between my current gearshifter where the reverse is next to the first gear when i fit a 1,9 gearbox where the reverse gear is under the fifth gear?

Thanks all for the usefull info so far.

[welshpug 1,626]

Remove reverse cable, change gearknob.

[kachel 5]

That simple? Nice!

[Anthony 1,000]

Remember that you'll also need to swap the clutch pedal, clutch cable, and the release bearing if changing from BE1 to BE3.

 

On early BE1 cars you'll need to swap or modify the pedal box too as the fitting for the clutch cable differs.

[kachel 5]

Are there BE1 1,9 gearboxes? Or is BE1 the name for the 1.6 box?

So the question is are there 1.9 boxes with the reverse gear next to the first gear?

[welshpug 1,626]

yes there are BE1 1.9 boxes, BE1 is the name for the type of gearbox pre 1989, there are codes for each variant as well but they wont be used much.

[kachel 5]

Great! Than i'd better search for a BE1 1.9 box. This one will have the reverse gear next to the first gear.correct?

How to recognize a 1.9 box with the reverse gear next to the first gear?

 

 

Edited November 28, 2013 by kachel

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

How to recognize a 1.9 box with the reverse gear next to the first gear?

A Be1 box will have BE1 cast into the gear casing.

 

Unfortunately you'll be relying on the seller to know the box is a 1.9 GTI gearbox unless you can remove the diff housing to see what numbers are stamped onto the crown wheel.

 

At first glance if there isn't a breather on top of the gearbox should be a good sign but these are occasionally removed on the Be3 so the mark on the casing is the only way but it doesn't tell you anything about what internals it has.

 

g

[Anthony 1,000]

Providing that it's a 205/309 gearbox, looking at the clutch arm/fork setup will easily distinguish a BE1 and BE3 gearbox. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that all 405 BE1 gearboxes used the later BE3 clutch arm/fork setup - certainly 405 Mi16's were like this.

 

As said, you really have to remove the diff cover and check the numbers on the crownwheel to be sure of whether it's a 1.9 gearbox, unless you're lucky enough to find an early gearbox that still has the sticker present and readable.

[kachel 5]

Thanks!