Gti Suspension On An Xs

[taylorspug 7]

Right, i know i need the subframe and all lower suspension, and that the subframe will need modifying to accomodate engine mount etc.

But am i right in thinking that i dont have to change my hubs, a casual look the other day seemed to confirm that they were the same?

Also what is the state of play on driveshafts, will i have to lengthen them to accomodate the GTI bottom wishbones (if they are longer)?

 

I think this will be a tough one, but one or two of you will probably stun me with your huge amounts of 205 knowledge!

 

Dan.

[jacobs53 0]

What are you actually trying to do? fit the suspension off the gti? because you are going the wrong way about it.

 

The subframe only needs to be changed if you are using a XU engine, i think the only other difference is the ARB attaches to it, and i also think that the Xu subframe mount will not fit the TU engine.

 

If you are just fitting the dampers and springs these are a straight swap onto the original hub no need to change for a gti hub (and yes there is a big differance between then hubs)

 

As i said the only thing you won't be able to fit is the ARB of the gti because you can't use the subframe. But the original one that is there will do its job, as long as you get the correct suspension set-up.

 

If im mislead by what you are trying to acheive just say.

 

cheers lee

[taylorspug 7]

No i want the whole lot, ARB, lower wishbones, everything. At the moment i only have Macpherson strut and Track control Arms. Track Control Arms are pants because you cannot get uprated bushes for them and ive destroyed 2 standard sets of bushes already. And even if you could get the bushes it wouldnt matter, because the whole arm flexes under heavy corner load. So i want to convert to the far better lower wishbone setup of the GTI as it is easier to get uprated parts for and is a much better base to start with. Lower wishbones will not mount to my current subframe, so the best thing for me to do is swap to the GTI item and do the slight modification necessary to fit my car/engine setup.

My shocks are for a GTI so have the mounting bracket for the ARB, so thats ok. What is the difference in the hubs between the 1.9 and the lower models? All i know is the 1.9 brakes fit on my xs hubs, cos ive got 'em on now!

 

These suspension problems probably wouldnt be a problem for others, but cos i do motorsport engineering at college and i race, it makes me very picky when it comes to suspension! Plus the 1.4 is disappearing in the spring to be replaced by a shiny saxo vts lump......

[Guest j_turnell]

I shouldnt bother mate, you may aswell get a GTi it probably work out cheaper. If you wana have the suspention why dont tou just replace the stuts. You could get a gti torsion bar which is stiffer also but otherwise i dont think there is much point.

[Guest Rik]

There is alot of point! Have you ever driven an xs? they handle good but no where near as good as the GTi,

 

you need to change the subframe for that from a later GTi model, as this will have the TU mounting on it, for the lower engine mount. You can then fit the GTi wishbones, ARB. + the GTi struts will fit into the xs hubs, and the hubs will also fit into the wisbone (bottom ball joint). Your best finding a scrapped GTI for the subframe, and if you want just buy new wishbones etc.

 

Off topic- whats motorsport engineering like at college? what sorta stuff do you do? + if you need any help with conversion jus give us a shout!

[Sam 4]

I was thinking the same with the driveshaft issue, i want to do this to mine very soon.

 

i was thinking maybe 309 shafts and arms but i bet a. they don't fit the ma box, b. they won't fit into the engine mount intermediate bearing, c. lengths might be all out with the different placement of engine? meaning one shaft might fit and the other be too short etc?

 

And just go gti?!? No thanks, rather have a gti underneath my nice rallye shell

and beat the gti boys lol

Edited November 11, 2003 by Rallye

[taylorspug 7]

Thanks Rik, you saw my point of view! Didnt kno that bout the late GTI subframe, thats a BIG help mate. Basically what i do at college is learn everything that is relevant to building, setting up and doing anything at all to racing cars! Everything from brake selection, roll centres, fuel systems, ECU programming (just started that), to engine building, oil selection, gearboxes, literally everything you can think of to do with motorsport!

Im in my second year now so we are building a project car as part of our final grade. Its not too shy either- a DAX Cobra replica with a 5.7 litre Chevy V8 stuffed in it!

 

Truly it is the most genius college course i have ever come across.

 

Rallye- Yes i was thinking the same thing with the shafts, although i think i have to cut the ones i have now to get my engine conversion in as it is. The GTI shaft dont fit in the MA box, ive checked that. I think its a case of just measuring up, then cutting/welding to suit. Only problem is this will take time and i cant have my car off the road for too long. Im gonna do some measuring up i think, see if i can get a rough idea.

Yeah i dont wanna go GTI, my xs shell is perfect and straight, why swap this for a GTI which could be bent as a bannana or hiding corrosion etc. Plus i dont wanna pay insurance for the GTI badge when my discreet xs with engine conversion will do the job loads cheaper! Not a fan of GTI wheel arch kits either, like the smooth uncluttered xs lines!

[Guest j_turnell]

There is alot of point! Have you ever driven an xs? they handle good but no where near as good as the GTi,

 

you need to change the subframe for that from a later GTi model, as this will have the TU mounting on it, for the lower engine mount. You can then fit the GTi wishbones, ARB. + the GTi struts will fit into the xs hubs, and the hubs will also fit into the wisbone (bottom ball joint). Your best finding a scrapped GTI for the subframe, and if you want just buy new wishbones etc.

 

Off topic- whats motorsport engineering like at college? what sorta stuff do you do? + if you need any help with conversion jus give us a shout!

Surprisingly i have driven an XS and been in a few gtis and yes the handling is alot different, it depends how far you want to go im happy with lowering and avos personally, its up 2 you. Seems like a lot of hassle to me.

[Guest Rik]

what would be the problem with the driveshafts? fitting? you don't need to change the hubs.

 

taylor: the xs - vts conversion: the drivers side driveshaft fits no problem, but the passenger doesn't. So you need to change the inner cv joint with that of the 106 gti / vts. then it will fit in the gearbox fine, and the hubs.

[Sam 4]

Rik i know a couple of people whose 205 shaft worked but i got a 106 shaft jsut incase

[jacobs53 0]

am i missing something here? you fit the gti subframe because the bottom mount is the same ? I was under the impression that it is completly different.

 

Actually i think the suspension on the xs/gt is very good, well on mine it was. Never used to roll, but it did have uprated dampers.

 

The gti wishbones will be alot stronger and the ARB will help, but is it worth the extra effort for a 1360cc? might as well buy a gti IMHO, Or buy a 1.9 and use the engine too, don't really see the point as the TU engine dosn't sit at a good angle for weight distribution neither unlike the XU...

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Im sure that and XS/GT would handle the same as or better than a gti if the right modifications were done to the suspension. Honestly a set of uprated dampers and it feels so much better.

 

cheers lee

[Sam 4]

The weight is inline with the wheels on the Tu 205s? And at least the engines not on the piss lol

 

the later XU subframe has 2 bolt holes, and as you know the engine mount is held by a fork whcih just bolts to the subframe

[jacobs53 0]

I didn't know there was any difference between the subframes, earlier and later i mean.

 

So whats so different about them???

 

cheers rallye, that could of proved costly!

 

lee

[Sam 4]

I think the only difference is the later has the hole for the fork to be moved for tu or xu, how true it is i don't know...

 

Sam

[taylorspug 7]

Er, i think my original question may be a little bit irrelevant now, as i skated of the road on some diesel last nite and stuffed the xs into a tree! It will fix (just), but a rethink probably wouldnt go amiss!

[jackherer 543]

I put a GTI suspension setup onto a CTI recently (CTIs have XS suspension as standard). One problem I didnt expect was the brake hose/pipe clamps in the wheelarch hitting the ARB droplink mounts on the struts. They need to be cut out and rewelded...

 

 

(pics stolen from http://www.205gti.com/storykoen_multivanUK.htm )

[jacobs53 0]

that a pain the ass! wouldn't of expected that to happen, what are the chances?

 

Cheers for the info, rallye and jackherer all this comes in handy when is start to do mine.

 

cheers lee

[sleeper205 0]

I don't think Jack's thin applies to us.

 

think that's a cabriolet specific thing.

 

seems ok on my XS.

[jacobs53 0]

hmm o.k i will keep it in mind though just in case.

 

20516v? what happened to sleeper205?

 

cheers lee