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rochie

175Bhp The Limit For An 8V?

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rochie

Hi guys.

This is my first thread after buying an 8v 1.9 track day car.

The current engine is a pretty well speced:

 

 

rebuilt 1.9 engine which had the crank polished, standard size.
balanced rods and 1.6 pistons.
twin weber 45s
honed bores and new standard piston rings.
the cylinder head had its ports smoothed out and valves all relapped.
new piper hot hatch race cam 292 deg
new cam belt and tensioner.
new engine mounts, rear one solid alloy.
flywheel was lightened, new ap borg and beck clutch.
1600 gearbox
The car was put on a rolling road and made 150bhp at the wheels so circa 175 at the fly.
Is this about the limit for a fast road/tack car or is there any further tuning to extract a bit more power?
I have thought of throttle bodies of course but cant really justify the price as I like the webers anyway.
Further cylinder head work?
Many thanks in advance

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rallyeash

Could get a fair bit more power but it's going to be expensive. Or 16v it and have that power out of the box with better torque potential soon.

 

Certainly not the limit power wise for a track car. My 205 Rallye is 230hp on a na 16v engine and could handle another 40hp, Shame my wallet can't though!

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dcc

no thats not the limit for an 8v.

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GLPoomobile

Without meaning to sound harsh, if you can't justify the cost of ITBs, then you have pretty much reached the limit on your 8v, as your wallet is now the limiting factor (or to put that another way, there's not really any cheap modifications that are going to get you any further). Costs will pretty much increase exponentially as you try to increase power. 175bhp isn't the limit for the 8v, but you are pretty high on the scale already so you are <probably> looking at some pretty serious work to go further.

 

You could go for an iron block and up the displacement with some carefully chosen parts. It'll obvioulsy change the character of the car, but you'll hopefully get a chunk more torque.

 

I suppose there might be some relatively cheap things you could do - like perhaps lighter pulleys and replacing the water pump with an electric pump to reduce rotational mass. You don;t mention if you've used a vernier cam pulley, so if not fitted already, using one might help set it up a little better. Perhaps see if there's anything you can do airflow wise (are you getting a good cold air feed to the carbs and are the filters flowing adequately?). What about the exhaust side? A custom manifold tuned to your specs might bring some benefit.

Edited by GLPoomobile

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DamirGTI

Guy Croft made an XU 1.6 8v ported head/engine , which was pulling out over 170Hp ...

 

The engine spes. where - 1.6 bottom end , Jenvey/DTA , piper camshaft , lightened balanced bottom end ...

 

So yes , i can go over the 170Hp .. strange thing is that the head gains inlet port flow massively when an deflector is positioned at an port floor .

 

 

D

Edited by DamirGTI

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petert

If it hasn't got big valves & 3 angle seats and flowed then your head is still a limiting factor. Also, you need to rev it to make hp, so that means double valve springs and 320 deg cam. Ceramic coated 4-1 exhaust? Forged pistons at 12:1 would also improve things. I think I just spent some serious money for you.

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welshpug

a pretty mild 16v build would breach the 200 mark.

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pug_ham

Miles will now more about this but I'm sure if you are willing to spend the money on an absolute spec 8v you can see 220bhp+ but it's not cheap to find.

 

g

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allanallen

It may open up a can of worms but isn't Baz selling a Mass 1800 8v with north of 210bhp? Probably a decent buy if you're serious about wanky 8 valvers?

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welshpug
Miles

That sounds low for the spec, I have done a couple of 8v's with Bodies and 275 Piper cams with mild head work which where 175bhp keeping the budget within reason, yes you can go allot further but expect rebuilds etc

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White Pugs

blah, blah, blah 8v hate etc

Each to their own ;-)

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allanallen

 

Each to their own ;-)

???? It's just a facade I keep up, I'm actually quite fond of the 8 valve motor in my rally car. Just don't tell anyone ????

Edited by allanallen

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TT205

^^ LOL

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rochie

Thanks for the great response guys!

 

GLPoomobile: Don't worry about sounding harsh of course the wallet is the main limiting factor. I should have said the limit without spending mega bucks, it's already got a vernier although the carbs could do with another slight fettle.

 

Petert: I think you are right that the head is the limiting factor with standard valves, so that may be the most beneficial improvement. I don't really want to get any hotter a cam as it's already pretty hot for a fast road car. It already has double valve springs.

 

Rallyeash: Thanks for the advice, not really interested in 16v at the mo as I like the simplicity and classic aspect of an 8v.

 

Miles: Does 175 really sound low if anything I thought it sounded a bit optimistic. Not sure on the rolling road it was done at so will have to check.

 

Thanks for all the input guys, I think to sum up without going for bodies, the best option would be; head work, re-jetting of carbs and possibly some exhaust work.

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ORB

To get to the next level you really need to be fitting a stoked crank and pedal clutch

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rallyeash

A stoked crank? Must be pretty chuffed?.....

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GLPoomobile

To get to the next level you really need to be fitting a stoked crank and pedal clutch

 

THat is a quality post :D But only works if you understand the "in joke", and the OP possibly hasn;t been here long enough, so it'll just come across as misleading ;)

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welshpug

 

Rallyeash: Thanks for the advice, not really interested in 16v at the mo as I like the simplicity and classic aspect of an 8v.

.

Unless you have an early 205, an mi16 will be just as old, just as simple :D

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rochie

THat is a quality post :D But only works if you understand the "in joke", and the OP possibly hasn;t been here long enough, so it'll just come across as misleading ;)

 

Damn being a newbie! Something to do with a Ozzy making stroked cranks?

Edited by rochie

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rochie

Unless you have an early 205, an mi16 will be just as old, just as simple :D

 

True! I'm sure there will be room for a tuned mi16 in the future.... but for now I like being a bit different with a tuned 8v

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Batfink

you are at the limit of a road driven trackday car. Unless its a race car its largely pointless to take it further. You will spend a lot of money and will end up with a highly strung race engine. Sounds good until you factor in service life and maintenance. If you want to get more power then ditch the 8v.

16v Peugeot engines will be massively quicker.

I wouldnt spend £8-10k building a 230bhp 8v engine when I could buy a honda engine and gearbox running the same power for £2k....

Edited by Batfink

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welshpug

I wouldnt spend £8-10k building a 230bhp 8v engine when I could buy a honda engine and gearbox running the same power for £2k....

 

And spend £3k making it fit...

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Batfink

hardly...I reckon I will have it all done for less than a grand including custom driveshafts.

Edited by Batfink

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calvinhorse

I saw a small hatchback that had been fitted with a Honda engine, bloke only wanted £500 for it..

Think it was called a civic

  • Like 4

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