Dedicated Track/race Set Up

[Shakey_Jake 3 1 Cars]

Evening,

 

Just want to hear people's opinions on this and what has been tried and tested.

 

Taken my 205 track car off the road so I can trailer it to trackdays and prepare for racing it in a few months time, I've got a good idea of what I want but would like to here what others recommend.

 

So, starting from scratch what would you put on a track only car, with a budget of say... Around £1800 so obviously not going to be the best most expensive parts. I've added a budget so no one can say million pound dampers and also some parts will have to be left out (feel free to go over it by a sensible amount if you must). For example buy decent coilovers (name which ones) and leave out adjustable wishbones and top mounts or don't spend a lot on suspension and get some extra camber all round and thicker rear ARB & torsion bars.

 

Also can people add what spring rates and torsion, ARB thickness they would use, if you can.

 

Or just add what your track only set up is.

 

Thanks,

Jake

[Batfink 201]

Colin Satchell is working on some interesting suspension design so you can get 1:1 damping rate at the back without modifying the rear for turrets. Not sure if the front and rear setups will be in your budget but worth a call. Check race rules though

Edited June 4, 2013 by Batfink

[Spiky 37]

Interesting, think I need to call Colin myself

 

My setup is 300lb -2.5 neg camber on front

309 front arb

309 beam, 24mm arb

[Shakey_Jake 3 1 Cars]

Spiky, what dampers are you using and how do you find that set-up, does the back end move around much? Any understeer? anything you would change or add?

 

Sorry for the 20 questions!

 

Batfink, I love the idea of having the best handling car on circuit and I would love to have something different from the norm, might need to sort the dampers first though. What dampers would you recommend?

 

It will be interesting to see their design once it's completed.

[Cameron 16]

I would go for something like this:

 

Components:

309 wishbones

Gaz GGA coilovers

Eccentric top mounts

Citroen ZX rear arms

Xsara VTS steering rack

 

Settings:

Front springs - 350lb/in

Rear springs - 24mm

Front ARB - standard

Rear ARB - 23-25mm (depending on preference)

 

This is assuming you're only looking for advice on suspension setup.

 

I wouldn't worry about fancy expensive dampers if you're limited by budget. The difference between a £600 set of Gaz Gold and a £3,000 set of top of the range dampers is going to be barely noticeable compared to, say, the difference between getting the rear spring / ARB rates sorted or fitting a set of decent tyres. Once you get in to fancy dampers you're chasing diminishing returns, and since most of the benefit comes from adjustment flexibility you only get those returns if you know what you're doing.

[Spiky 37]

Above is almost what I run

 

It's planted, no lift off over steer, turn in could be better, I was on -2 so this year I'm try a little more camber

 

My 24mm rear arb. Cured my under steer , still running std 309 torsion bars

[welshpug 1,627]

stick a 205 beam on if you want better turn in, or ZX arms.

[calvinhorse 870]

Keep an eye out for a LSD

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

I have to disagree on the damper front. The difference between the GAZs and a set of inverted monos is very noticeable. Granted getting the rear sorted is as you say going to make the biggest difference but spending an extra £600 on dampers for me I wish I had done it straight away. I paid £1200 for inverted mono tubes with a set of adjustable top mounts which considering the difference between the damper design and the effect it had on the car is nothing to pay.

 

Agreed on tyres, they make a huge difference. Can highly recomend Silverstone FTZ Tyre RR. Make sure you have the camber to make them work. They came good for me with 3.5 static.

[Cameron 16]

I do agree if it's within your budget, but £1200 of £1800 doesn't leave anywhere near enough to get the basics sorted; you could spend that money on an LSD and it would completely transform the car.

 

Camber is a biggie, I ran -3.0Deg up front with my A048's and that was awesome.

[Spiky 37]

cameron, what toe settings?

 

i've just set mine to "0"

[Cameron 16]

It's personal preference really; I had mine set to +2mm and turn-in was brilliant, but you compromise on stability.

[Spiky 37]

ok cheers, i will have a play at the next track day

[Spiky 37]

Spiky, what dampers are you using and how do you find that set-up, does the back end move around much? Any understeer? anything you would change or add?

 

 

sorry forgot to answer that,

 

i run PTS front bilstein's 300/200

 

on rear i run bisteins 1038

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

yeh I see your point cameron, depends what you are starting with I guess. The only reason I mention it with such weight is because I was of the opinion it wouldn't make all that much difference. But when I finally got around to changing them and driving the car in the dry I was astounded by the difference. I can ride curbs now as well without completely unsettling the car.

 

I think for the OP you want to try and set yourself up so that you don't have to make big changes in the future. i.e. give yourself the capability for camber

• rear stub axel change
  get the beam rebuilt whilst your at it with TBs and ARB. Its so worth it.
• adjustable top mounts and optionally get the front hubs machined as well.

Chuck a set of dampers at it within your price range and then concentrate on getting your toe, camber and spring rate sorted on the front. This is relatively cheap.

 

Once that capability is there you can always upgrade to better dampers, more expensive tyres etc.. in the future.
Would also say the standard 205 brakes are fine if you use a motorsport pad and make sure everything is in good nick. Would be worth fitting braided lines, new master cylinder and good fluid (motul RBF 600 for example) as its all relatively cheap.

 

Its again something that can be changed at a later date if you decide to continue but the plumbing is all sorted then.

 

good luck

[petert 554]

The three most important things in my mind are a weld in cage, 23-24mm torsion bars and an LSD. They are the key points.

 

Without a weld in cage big diameter torsions are a waste of time, as the car will just flex.

 

I use to run re-valved Koni's and reset -40mm std springs on the front for a long time. A well set up car will make the big dollar spenders look very ordinary. Get the back sorted before you start serious money on the front. And by that I mean a fully rebuilt beam, which has solid mounts (including crush tubes).

 

Camber depends on the track really. At -3 deg. the tyres don't work properly on straighter tracks. I've gone back to -2.5 deg and times have improved.

 

I run 0-1mm of toe out. Under brakes the toe out increases anyway.

[fatstig1 0]

evening all,i hope i am posting this inthe right section.

i run a 205 stock hatch.

i noticed another 205 was running neg camber on the rear and asked if he was using zx trailing arms (which are not permitted, lol)

he said no, ihave put the beam in a pipe bender and bent the camber in.

now being naive,and new to the tricks racers get up too,but,is this possible,and if so has anyone done this.

i am related to homer simpson by the way.

thanks for your indulgance.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

More likely to have warmed the rear arms up and bent them to suit......

[fatstig1 0]

surely one bend in the beam is easier than trying to do both trailing arms ?

[2052NV 24]

thread hijack. but on the note of zx trailing arms,

 

Are all zx trailing arms the same i.e. from the boggo diesel to the gti's??

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

surely one bend in the beam is easier than trying to do both trailing arms ?

It'd have to be a decent bend to get any worthwhile camber. You'd need to bend the torsion bars to match, which is a s*it idea and then I'd imagine you'd struggle to get the beam mounts in the car.

 

How do they police trailing arm changes? Early 309 gti arms will give neg camber and look identical to 205 arms. Can you machine the rear arms?

 

A quick search and these are the regs on the site

 

Standard configuration and pick-up points; springs may be uprated and lowered. No rose-joints or rod-ends; only single-adjustable dampers; standard anti-roll bars.

 

Plenty of scope for mods if that's the complete regs??

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Are all zx trailing arms the same i.e. from the boggo diesel to the gti's??

They have a different part number on citroen service box but that is possibly due to the different stub axle for the drum brakes but according to autodata they are all the same for wheel alignment setting.

 

g

[welshpug 1,627]

They don't have much more camber than tyhe 205's 0.5 of a degree (if any at all), just zero toe over the 205's 3mm.

[Anthony 1,000]

ZX arms give 1 degree negative camber Mei, and certainly noticeable

[fatstig1 0]

allenallen,you have to look at tech regs, comparison to standard manufacturers parts.

possibly get away with 309 arms, as you say they are near identical ?

the car i was looking at seemed maybe -3 deg, looked more like rear of btcc car.

more ideas welcome, (naive).