Rear Shocks

[arwel 43 2 Cars]

Hi people. I did Mini Epynt Stages yesterday and I had a problem with the rear of the car being far to soft for the dips, crests and jumps. Its got some Bilstein B6 forestry shocks on the rear which have been fine for road rallies and other single venues but really weren't ideal yesterday.

 

What are the best alternatives to harden it up? I cant seem to find a specific tarmac Bilstein shock, do they exsist? people mentioned Avo to be yesterday but from what I gather their not the most reliable of shocks. Someone told me to try 306 bilsteins as their longer and wont bottom the rear end out.. do they fit on the 205 beam and would they do the job?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

205 grpA billies or 306 Tarmac billies are about the best you'll get from the Bilstein range.

[arwel 43 2 Cars]

306 tarmac ones seem to be the ones I need. Any idea where to find the buggers?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I'd try batfink on here, abmotorsport or possibly see if bilstien can re-valve yours to that spec. Although b6s and challenge dampers may be different to the proper Motorsport ones.

[Adrian247 5 1 Cars]

Worth giving AVO a ring, they do a 2 way adjustable that maybe more suitable or try fitting some thicker torsion bars if your running standard ones. Bilstein do a group A tarmac damper rated at 460/250 AB motorsport have got them at £150 ish each

Edited June 3, 2013 by Adrian247

[welshpug 1,627]

The 306 damper wont prevent it from bottoming out if you hit a big enough bump, that'll be the bumpstop

 

As mentioned, the b6 is just a fast road damper, do match whatever you buy to your torsion bars as well, no point in a 306 tar damper with 18.9mm standard bars!

[Adrian247 5 1 Cars]

Worth giving AVO a ring, they do a 2 way adjustable that maybe more suitable or try fitting some thicker torsion bars if your running standard ones. Bilstein do a group A tarmac damper rated at 460/250 AB motorsport have got them at £150 ish each

The number of the Bilstein Tarmac Damper is F4-B46-2313-HO.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

 

The number of the Bilstein Tarmac Damper is F4-B46-2313-HO.

I run these with 21mm bars, they're really good but unfortunately they've 'blown' after 3 events

Have you any experience with the avo 2 ways? I'm after something that'll last a bit longer than the billies have......

[Adrian247 5 1 Cars]

I run these with 21mm bars, they're really good but unfortunately they've 'blown' after 3 events

Have you any experience with the avo 2 ways? I'm after something that'll last a bit longer than the billies have......

I dont have any personal experience, but I know a number of people that swear by the AVO stuff, especially on the back of a 205, if I hadnt had a set of brand new bilsteins in my garage for my new car I would have probably looked at the AVO stuff. A few have said that once you change to AVO you wont go back, Bilstein is a bit old hat now, I guess technology has moved on since the Bilstein for the rear of a 205 was first introduced.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Avo's are at the fore front of damper technology!!!

[welshpug 1,627]

Only experience I have of AVO's is they need new seals all the time!

 

That and theyre "cheap" and the guy pushes them on the rally forum all the time, bit like GAZ seem to be the flavour with many on here for some reason.

Edited June 3, 2013 by welshpug

[arwel 43 2 Cars]

Thanks people. A fair few options there then to consider. Much appreciated.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Avo's are at the fore front of damper technology!!!

Is this sarcasm? Come on ed give us a clue! ????

 

Welshpug, is this the 2way rears you're on about?? My experience with avos is s*it but I'm talking the cheap road stuff not the Motorsport stuff which coincidentally aren't cheap.

Ive found Avo customer service is good though.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

bit like GAZ seem to be the flavour with many on here for some reason.

Value for money, obtainable, customer service ???? I'm sure we'd all be blowing smoke up ASTs arse like yourself if we could afford them or more to the point actually get hold of some! ????

[Adrian247 5 1 Cars]

If Money was no object then I would look at Reigers for the rear of a 205, but at nearly £800 a side..ouch!!!

[Batfink 201]

I bought all the 205 group a rear stock last year. Doubt any more will have been made since but I still have a couple of sets

[Batfink 201]

 

Value for money, obtainable, customer service ???? I'm sure we'd all be blowing smoke up ASTs arse like yourself if we could afford them or more to the point actually get hold of some! ????

taken me 6 months to get stuff in for customers. Still not arrived

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Mr woodman is a busy chap.

 

I went straight to the dutch guys and explained the UK dealer situation.... they were extremely helpful, offered me all the tech info I wanted and included prices for all the range including top mounts. Prices were very reasonable as I had to fight to get suppliers in the UK to match it. And gave me a reasonable lead time.

 

In the end I ended up going through contacts from work which did end up coming through the ast uk dealer all be it by a very scenic route.

 

I cant comment on durability or reliability as the car only does a few hundred miles a year but having ASTs on the front (inverted monos) transformed the car. It was the only setup change, actually included an every so slightly stiffer spring and still made the car more oversteery.

 

so there is your smoke up arse!

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Mr woodman is a busy chap.

 

I went straight to the dutch guys and explained the UK dealer situation.... they were extremely helpful, offered me all the tech info I wanted and included prices for all the range including top mounts. Prices were very reasonable as I had to fight to get suppliers in the UK to match it. And gave me a reasonable lead time.

 

In the end I ended up going through contacts from work which did end up coming through the ast uk dealer all be it by a very scenic route.

 

I cant comment on durability or reliability as the car only does a few hundred miles a year but having ASTs on the front (inverted monos) transformed the car. It was the only setup change, actually included an every so slightly stiffer spring and still made the car more oversteery.

 

so there is your smoke up arse!

???? Can we all use you as the new AST distributor then Henry? ???? They're defo what I'd go for on my circuit car but after attempting to deal with the distributor myself and hearing everyone else's horror stories I don't think I'll bother.

 

Batfink, I'm talking from my own experience as joe public rather than a retailer such as yourself ????

[welshpug 1,627]

Curtis is just a salesman afaik, so its still the dutch delays exacerbated by going through a third party.

[petert 555]

......bit like GAZ seem to be the flavour with many on here for some reason.

 

Yes, they seem to work very well for Colin. It seems strange that others can't seem to get the same results from them.

[welshpug 1,627]

Bit different making an upright damper work to a classic overworked pug damper.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

As a note to the OP I use the bilstein tarmac rears, supplied by Batfink. Using these with 25mm torsion bars and 25mm ARB, maybe a little underdamped but I don't notice it for circuit use. During an investigation I did at uni the normal bilstein yellows were slightly overdamped for 23mm bars so perhaps tarmac rears are ok for 25mm. I haven't had any trouble with them blowing or leaking etc.. again only used for circuit stuff so a little less energy going through them although I do seem to attack curbs!

Allan, try marleen@ast-suspension.com she offered me all the info and prices as well as lead time. You could try explaining the uk dealer situation as I did This was over a year ago so may not be current!

make sure you pick up there new double digressive valves and DLC coated shafts. Shame they don't supply regressive valves! as far as I know anyway, have to sell your house contents and phone penske for that.

 

Edit: sorry it was the tarmac dampers I had on for the testing with 23mm bars.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Henry 1.9GTi

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

A damper is just a damper to most people. They have to have it, but do not know what it does, how it does it and how they can gain performance from it.

 

You wont be getting anything fancy outside of the top brands like Penske - Ohlins - MMVS Dynamics. We pay our way in R&D and put out our patents for a reason.

 

Regressive valving is a technology which is especially relevant to the Saloon/Hatchback/Touring market. It is also very affordable for the Clubman racer who has or is buying a set of Penskes.

 

Double Digressive is nothing new and im not sure I would be running it Henry.

[Batfink 201]

Cheers for the link Henry. We could sell 10x more AST but customers will not wait for Curtis to get them in. He is so disorganised and I think this is the sole issue. Wrote a stinker of an email complaining about the timescale so will see if I can start to deal direct