Gti6 Running Problems? Ive Solved A Few!

[camgti 56]

OK Folks.

 

Over the past few months Ive completed a J4RS Conversion into a friends 205.

 

It started life as a 92 Gti (122 CAT) as a rebuild project that was 95% complete ( that final 5% is soooo hard to get to hey! )

 

We bought a 94 000 Kilometre Xsara Phase 2 motor ( Australia ) and converted it into the 205 using a Miles converted loom ( nice piece of work! ) onto the Xsara donk!

 

There were 3 plugs on the loom that must have been different from the EU cars and so I had to cut into the loom and fit the correct plugs to fit the Australian delivered sensor setup on the motor. Using the VTS loom.

 

The motor never had a stable idle in the 205 and missed and hunted in most of the rev range unless you had your foot right into it!

And So began the quest to get it running! As I knew the motor was good and the fact I had left everything alone when I removed it and then installed it, I knew that it was either a problem with something on the car before the motor was installed ( fuel pump etc ) or my cock up somewhere along the line.

 

The old motor ran like spanners, had fuelling issues etc so I thought it be a good idea to change the fuel pump, lines and filter to eliminate that. It seemed to sharpen a few things up but nothing to write home about. Not that side of fuelling anyway.

 

Next to spring to mind was the VSS sensor. Through searching on the forum, some had issues with this not functioning correctly and was giving poor response at low speeds. I knew the VSS came from the car we removed and the car drove well so eliminated that. I checked it to make sure with another known working one and there was no difference.

 

 

In the middle of this the radiator decided to give up and so had to change that. ANother day gone.

 

I then wanted to change the TPS. Lucky I had bought another J4r motor in the week and it was delivered that day, I was able to rob a few bits from that to check on the other lump.

 

The ICV! Lots of information on here. Not much worth noting! Most cases seem to end with the owner walking away with hands in the air! Not actually figuring out the problem in the end!

 

So I changed it out. THe exchanged item was terrible and so reverted back. Reverting back I tried a method i read up on here about turning the ignition on and off to perhaps wake up the ICV ( very loose term that! ). It was fine and back to the way it was when pulled out.

Not the Icv then. ( I did not mention before but the idle was not great, it would eventually slowly stall and hunted up and down )

 

Next on the list was the TPS. Swapped out, no difference... and a pain in the arse to get to without removing the TB.

 

After lots of head scratching and late nights pouring over threads on here ( mind you Im not mechanic and have only learnt all things 205 from try9ing them! ) I stumbled upon how to test the sensors

 

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=80340&page=1

 

So, tonight my mate came around with his multimeter and we started testing with the MAP sensor. Now because I think Im awesome and anything I would ever do could never be worng. Well.... One of the plugs I had to change on the loom to take the Oz style sensor layout was the MAP sensor, I had to cut up the miles loom a little and fit the plugs form the OZ loom to make it all plug together. When testing the Map sensor the voltages were around the wrong way. 1 and 3 were back to front. So, we switched the around and the car it totally different. Its almost perfect. It now revs very cleanly and idles and behaves as should...almost!

 

There is a slight hesitation below about 2000rpm and the idle is off a little when hot. I ended up having to take the throttle body off and I think the gasket will need change as they never seal well a second time. Otherwise, it sings!

 

So. Point to my huge story is that I have read lots and lots of stories about these 6 motors not running correctly and then people spending loads on replacement parts changing this and that all over the place ( like me !) when all you need to do is spend 30 minutes with a multi meter and you will know which sensor you need to change or what wires are not working from the ECU. It sounds and seems really intimidating to read about and to someone who thinks they know nothing about electrical, but its really simple, not really any tools required and can be done in 30 minutes.

 

I want to chase up the final hesitation at low revs but Im really happy to have figured it out!

 

These motors really crank in a 205!

 

Will report back.

[camgti 56]

Ok Folks,

 

A few weeks have past and Im on a mission to get this thing working properly.

 

According to a few posts Ive read, the VTS (PH2) injectors are not able to be correctly operated by the GTi6 Ecu. Im not entirely sure why. Flow rates? Impedance? I have tried many things to get this car to run correctly and am at a loss until I came across this info.

 

THe car is using too much fuel, has a slightly erratic idle and hesitates early in the revs. Most Gti6 conversions seem to suffer this it seems. Many just drive arond and deal with it. Once you have your foot down it takes off but still feels like it a fuelling issue somewhere along the line.

 

Can anyone tell me the difference between the GTi6 Injectors and the Ph2 VTS items? Are the fuel pressure Regs the same? I think its over fuelling but I cant work out why!

 

 

I will be getting to this over the next few days and can hopefully report back with some useful information!

 

Cam

[Anthony 1,000]

The injectors are certainly different, but I've not looked into the exact details of the Phase 2 items - here in the UK, Phase 1 / GTi-6 injectors are cheaply and easily available so it's easiest to just use the correct parts in the first place.

 

The FPR on Phase 2 Xsara's is higher pressure than Phase 1 / GTi-6 - from memory it's 3.5 bar vs 3.0 bar

[camgti 56]

Great! Thanks for the info.

 

It pointing more and more towards this as being the problem.

 

Ill see if I can get a hold of a GTi6 reg to make sure its all the correct specs

 

 

Cam

[welshpug 1,626]

Doesn't have to be a gti6 reg, just a generic 3 bar weber/bosch unit, cross references to several hundred GM, Fiat and PSA products to name a few.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Having just used some later Xsara injectors on a normal 306 loom they worked fine, sorry to add to the confusion

[deathbringer929 49 1 Cars]

Having just used some later Xsara injectors on a normal 306 loom they worked fine, sorry to add to the confusion

 

i am running ph2 vts engine in my 205 and runs perfect on the sagem (i think) injectors. its also on gti6 harness, ph2 vts loom etc. only had to change knock sensor as connectors were different.

[Jemehan 3 1 Cars]

Also have this issue, I am suspecting the MAP sensor (S16 as appose to GTI6). Will be interesting to see if it is the injectors as not changed those, but I agree, feels like a fuelling issue - have already changed, pump (now walbro 244) and the filter, also changed the pressure regulator, none of those causing the issue. I can only assume that the MAP sensor and ECU are not communicating something, perhaps chucking too much fuel in there due to it, very annoying issue and can occasionally be quite dangerous at roundabouts.

 

Have also changed throttle, pretty much all the sensors around there except the Idle control valve, this was removed and washed with WD40. Hope this helps narrow your search, and help your pocket!

[camgti 56]

Were the VTS injectors used with the VTS fuel reg as they are different also?

 

Cam

[deathbringer929 49 1 Cars]

Were the VTS injectors used with the VTS fuel reg as they are different also?

 

Cam

yes mine is running vts ph2 injectors and fpr.

[camgti 56]

You said your is on a different loom? What ECU are you running?

 

Cam

[camgti 56]

OK Folks,

 

Got a hold of a set of GTi6 ( the green ones ) and swapped out the VTS ( blue ) items. Booom! It now runs spot on. Not misses, no flat spots runs and idles as it should!

 

So, if your out there running a VTS set of injectors on the GTi6 computer and having trouble with it running smooth try replacing the injectors to the Green GTi6 ones.

 

As a few people have said above, they have cars running with the VTS injectors without trouble but if you are having trouble this may sort your problem out!

 

Cam