Shock And Springs To Really Lower The Car

[Guest Admin]

Okay this is purely theoretical (speedy can post his joke picture if he wants)

 

If I wanted to lower the car so it was an inch and a half of the ground (this is in theory) what combination of shocks and springs would still give me some travel say an inch of travel and wouldn't fall to bit's/leak after 5 mins, I also would like to raise the suspension up 2 inchs to give 3 1/2 of clearance so I'm presuming coilover are the only way, question is are their coilovers which will do this?

 

Answers on a postcard to andyhasreadtoomuchmaxpower@205turbo.com

 

Alternativly just post here. This is actually a serious question believe it or not.

[NickR 10]

Coilovers front AND rear...

 

Might be able to get some coilovers that mount in similar position to std dampers. But its gonna require some angle grinder art I recon.

[Guest Admin]

I was expecting that as an answer, are we talking custom coilovers here though as I can't see std ones being short enough to allow that kinda of drop?

[Guest Butler]

What about really small wheels?

[Guest Admin]

Now thats just stupid

[Adi 0]

If I wanted to lower the car so it was an inch and a half of the ground

 

What part of the car needs to be an inch off the ground......the front skirt or sills or sump etc???

 

I take it the car will be only used on track etc......as 1" of suspension travel will not do for anything else...but the smoothest of surface. I'm not sure whether that would be enough for riding the kerbs.

 

It would really be a case of trial and error as to 1stly.....how much the suspension needs to be lowered.....to get the chassis in the chosen position......and 2ndly, whether there is the part available to lower the car that amount.

 

Some coilovers will allow in the region of 80mm drop.

 

I would suggest removing the springs/torsion bars from the car......and see how much the car is from the ground when sat totally on the bump stops. That will give an idea of what needs to be done....or whether its going to be possible.

[NickR 10]

On the track the biggest problem is not the ride height but going over stiff, causing the car to bounce on the tyres, which is not good, leaning on the tyres round corners causes them to have very sharp breakaway.

 

Ford Mondeo touring car suffered this problem in the 90's, they could'nt use the curbs very well. They raised the ground clearance a little, use soft helper springs and suddenly handling problems were fixed.

 

On a side note they could lap faster with 17in wheels, but had to use 19in wheels for the brakes, which was better for overtaking even if laps times suffered. Again I think this is due to the higher profile tyre being more forgiving.

[Guest Admin]

Adi i'm aiming to get the floor pan an Inch and Half off the ground, i only inted to use it in this setting on a track hence the reason for it needing to be raised 2 inches higher if I intended to use it on the road.

 

I was considering using a set of coil overs and grinding the mounting point off the back rewelding a new one higher up the strut and lowering the car that way, then I could always raise the car back up using the coilovers.

 

The rear suspension will be replaced and before people start i'll also be moving the engine slightly higher so the drive shafts won't get damaged.

 

What sort of poundage spring would one recomend, also bearing in mind this car will have had it's weight reduced with fibre wings/doors/boot etc and also have no interior. Engine is MI16.

 

This is purely theoretical right now.

[Guest CB-Dave]

If you're after having the floor pan 1 1/2" off the ground, the exhaust will be scraping like hell...

 

Just an observation!

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

How about Citreon hydraulics?!!

[Guest Admin]

Citroen Hydraulics, yuk, don't think so

 

Dave don't worry about the exhaust as it won't be running under the car or even from front to back for that matter and hence won't get in the way, also the the brake lines/fuel lines will be relocated inside the car.

[danGTI 0]

hydraulics are popular in feature cars at the mo in the max power etc mags. You can drop literally to the ground when you're parked up or raise it for speed bumps. From what i've read though they're not very good for fast driving so are more suitable for shows.

[Guest JwTvH]

What's wrong with the citroen hydrolics? not stiff enough?

 

On the dutch site there's a racer with adjustable's front and rear. (one of the racers, the orange one)

 

Club racer 5

[jackherer 543]

What's wrong with the citroen hydrolics? not stiff enough?

if that was the problem then a five minute regas of the spheres would have it sorted

 

people think citroen suspension is inherently soft but that is just how they setup their roadcars, and when the damping and spring rate is all determined by green balls that take five minutes to swap it makes them extremely reconfigurable.

[Adi 0]

i'm aiming to get the floor pan an Inch and Half off the ground

 

I think the only way you are going to be able to run the car that low, and for the suspension to work effectively.....is to fit space frames front and rear. This way, the suspension is designed around the height of the car.

The front suspension is designed around the car being several inches off the ground. As such.....the lateral links (lower wishbone) are working around the horizontal plane. If you go too far past that angle......every time the wheel hits a bump, the steering will be effected to a large degree......making the car undrivable.

 

F1 and Cart suspensions are set up using 4000-5000lb spring rates and the most suspension travel will be at the rear with about 40mm.....1 1/2". The dampers themselves are designed to move more than that with the use of bell/crank devices.......so allowing maximum control.

The front suspension moves very little with the most movement coming from the tyre.

 

So as you will see.....the set up you are thinking of has less movement than an F1 car......and have enough adjustment to run on the road.

It just won't work keeping the original suspension configuration.

[Guest JwTvH]

if that was the problem then a five minute regas of the spheres would have it sorted

 

people think citroen suspension is inherently soft but that is just how they setup their roadcars, and when the damping and spring rate is all determined by green balls that take five minutes to swap it makes them extremely reconfigurable.

Then what is the problem with the citroen system? is it adjustable to a peugeot?

 

@adi -> do you have a picture of a space frame setup for the suspension? just wondering how it looks

[jackherer 543]

IMO there are no problems with the citroen suspension design, its very elegant in a lot of ways. But fitting it to a peugeot would be quite involved. Although the 4x4 405s (Mi16x4 and T16) have hydraulic rear beams based on the citroen design.

[Guest Admin]

Adi thanks for that information, that was my original plan however speedy recomended I might be able to achieve the same effect using coilovers and the original suspension.

 

I was considering finding a car which was RWD and used a dual wishbone configuration and building some spaceframes to take that which would allow me a lot more freedom, however that was as far as my investigations got.

[DrSeuss 0]

Either go for hydraulics or pneumatics. Both of these will drop a car to the floor pretty much though i don't know what kind of effect this would have on the rear beam. The only thing is the car would be essentially undriveable.

 

But you could really impress a mcdonalds car park full of chavas.

[Guest Admin]

Yeah but the point is it needs to perform on a track not outside mcdonalds.

[fiji bob 0]

from what ive heard about hydraulic suspension not the citroen kind is that its dangerous even at 30mph, although you could impress a few people by 3 wheeling down the straights

[Adi 0]

I was considering finding a car which was RWD and used a dual wishbone configuration and building some spaceframes to take that which would allow me a lot more freedom

 

Definately a better idea to achieve the good dynamics.

 

A point that most don't understand......there is more to making a car handle.....than just dropping as low as possible.

All the linkages have to be in the right place and work correctly. Otherwise the car will not handle or steer correctly.

[Guest Admin]

That was my original understanding hence my thinking of finding a car with the correct suspension setup to start with then use that. Okay thanks for you help Adi been very good.

[Adi 0]

car with the correct suspension setup to start with then use that

 

I do know cases where a space frame has been used on the rear of a 205....incorporating double wishbones.

 

But you will certainly not need to lower the car to extremes to get a good set up.

 

But then ideally RWD will provide better weight distribution and ability to get the power down will be superior. So it all depends on what you want and how much you have to spend.

[Guest Admin]

Either that or how mad your feeling with a welder