Err...a Little Help On First Start After Rebuild 1.6 8Valve

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

M18 would be the earth wire.

usually green, with a yellow taper right?

[welshpug 1,622]

Typically yes, Earth wires tend to have an "M" prefix.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

So the haynes is wrong or do I have these wires the wrong way round?

[welshpug 1,622]

they are arranged:

 

M18, Earth.

18A, 12v switched,

7 signal to ecu

8 signal to ecu.

 

I can see in your pic that the earth is at the correct pin, I cant see the green wire you mention other than the earth with the yellow mark, but 18A should be next to it, its the same feed as the injectors and throttle switch.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

they are arranged:

 

M18, Earth.

18A, 12v switched,

7 signal to ecu

8 signal to ecu.

 

I can see in your pic that the earth is at the correct pin, I cant see the green wire you mention other than the earth with the yellow mark, but 18A should be next to it, its the same feed as the injectors and throttle switch.

So the my Haynes has a missprint then?

I'll try and get a pic up of the page I'm looking at.

[welshpug 1,622]

I dont get what you mean, that data is straight from the haynes manual.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I've been looking for it on the web but I cant find the book I'm using.

It's the older (I think) workshop manual page 96.

There's a photo of the plug with two arrows on it and a description of the wires 18A and M18 under it.

I think they must have them mixed up.

I'll take a photo of it when I get home.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

 

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I did some more tests tonight.

Tried a spare coil, no difference

Checked all the wiring again! I checked the wires to the black box on the slam panel too this time and they seem fine.

I put a voltmeter accross an injector connector and it's seems to be only pulsing at 1.3 volts when cranking, It's only a crappy digi multi one so it could be pulsing more, but I'd have thought it would have been more like 9 volts,

[glenwah 20]

If your testing for voltage at something that pulses then a multimeter doesn't react fast enough, you will need a peak voltage adapter/imrie tester for that, it holds the meter at the highest recorded voltage, for example a motorcycle coil needs 100volts + to spark but a multimeter will only read about 15-30 volts without the adapter.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

If your testing for voltage at something that pulses then a multimeter doesn't react fast enough, you will need a peak voltage adapter/imrie tester for that, it holds the meter at the highest recorded voltage, for example a motorcycle coil needs 100volts + to spark but a multimeter will only read about 15-30 volts without the adapter.

Thought as much

Still no nearer to finding an answer then.

 

I'm going to test the Sad tonight and try a spare set of injectors I have.

could anyone please confirm that my AFM is wired correctly and the Haynes is wrong.

 

Alex

[DamirGTI 325]

The AFM connector is fine ..

 

Did you by any chance cross connected fuel lines ? check if you're not sure ..

 

Also try - unplug the fuel pump relay , pop up the relay cover , plug it back inside without the cover and manually close relay contacts with your fingers , you'll hear fuel pump priming the system (if it's all fine with the wiring) .. hold the relay contacts for a 10-15 seconds till it builds up the pressure and let lose .. then try to start it .

 

Take a look around the fuel lines , pipes , joints (particularly on the fuel pump , these are plastic so can crack) as well while the system is pressurized .. if there's maybe a leak somewhere (small leaks you wont be able to see if the system isn't pressurized)

 

D

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

So the Haynes has a missprint!

Has this not been spotted before?

 

I've tried a spare realy and the symptom are the same.

I can hear the pump presurize the system and I'm getting fuel to the rail so the lines are correct.

The pressure regulator is an unknown working one, as I ruined mine when Isent it along with the rail to be zinc plated.

I have a spare FSA Power one I might try tonight.

I have a spare set of 1.9 injectors I could try to eliminate them been blocked from crystalized cleaning fluid, but I'm doubtfull as it was only about a month between fiting them from cleaning.

I have a spare ignition amp but its different to the one fitted, sould it matter?

 

Keep ideas comming though!

[kyepan 291]

Perhaps ten quid plus some hose

[DamirGTI 325]

I have a spare ignition amp but its different to the one fitted, sould it matter?

 

Which ones do you have ? (brand)

 

D

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Which ones do you have ? (brand)

 

D

 

The one fitted is a black one, can't remeber I'll check, but my spare is blue Bosch one.

 

It ran for a bit longer than normal last night, I'd not done anything different but I had left the ignition on by mistake overnight so I tried it to see if the bat was flat.

It ran for about 10 seconds straight away after turning the key and the idle almost evened out so I tried the throttle and it reved to about 1500-2000 RPM and then cut out.

It then refused to start again, catching only occasionally.

I went to change the reguator with the FSA power one and pressure is getting to the injectors OK, as I ended up covered in petrol. The FSA regualtor made no difference when fitted.

 

Considering the symptoms I'm thinking is either too much fuel or not enough spark (The spark isn't orange and looks fine to me though) thinking that I've flooded it, hence it always been easier to start after leaving it for a day.

One other thing I havn't cecked is the SAD, as it's a b*tch to get to.

The mixture setting on the AFM is 6.5 turns out (untouched since it last ran) and the throttle idle setting is 2.5 turns out,

I have a gunson gas tester to set it up when its running but does this sound about right for initial start up?

[kyepan 291]

Right ok, have you got a gauge? and have you checked the pressure with the gauge.

 

i don't think you're going to know how much pressure, and when you've really got the correct pressure until you test it with a gauge. You've checked the spark, so now check the fuel. Yes you've got fuel, but how much is fairly critical to the engine actually running, especially when cold.

 

something like this... is probably about right, although i believe the fittings differ from the MI to the 8v, so perhaps someone else might be able to give a specific fitting.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Tester-100-psi-0-7Barg-/181070678324?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a28a74934

 

Check the following, by placing the gauge after the fuel filter and before the rail, so your're getting the inlet pressure.

 

1)Any priming pressure prior to cranking.

2)Cranking pressure, as the voltage drop because of the current draw from the stater may be causing issue

3)Pressure when running, this should be a constant 3 bar, give or take vacuum

4)Residual pressure after the engine stops, this maintain a pretty healthy 3 bar for 20-30 minutes in the line, the non return valve helps this.

 

Do this, and then you'll be certain it's not fuel related, as i said previously, i've had some weird weird issues with the car not starting. Spent ten minutes with the gauge installed and the problem was diagnosed, it had been plaguing me for months.

Edited February 21, 2013 by kyepan

[DamirGTI 325]

The one fitted is a black one, can't remeber I'll check, but my spare is blue Bosch one.

 

Fit the Bosch blue one , that's the best amp.

 

D

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The SAD wil not stop it from starting imo but have you got the connectors right between the SAD & CTS?

 

Have you run the fuel pump independently for a bit to bleed the fuel system through yet?

 

Have you tried keeping it running for longer with some easy start or similar?

 

g

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Right ok, have you got a gauge? and have you checked the pressure with the gauge.

 

i don't think you're going to know how much pressure, and when you've really got the correct pressure until you test it with a gauge. You've checked the spark, so now check the fuel. Yes you've got fuel, but how much is fairly critical to the engine actually running, especially when cold.

 

something like this... is probably about right, although i believe the fittings differ from the MI to the 8v, so perhaps someone else might be able to give a specific fitting.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Tester-100-psi-0-7Barg-/181070678324?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a28a74934

 

Check the following, by placing the gauge after the fuel filter and before the rail, so your're getting the inlet pressure.

 

1)Any priming pressure prior to cranking.

2)Cranking pressure, as the voltage drop because of the current draw from the stater may be causing issue

3)Pressure when running, this should be a constant 3 bar, give or take vacuum

4)Residual pressure after the engine stops, this maintain a pretty healthy 3 bar for 20-30 minutes in the line, the non return valve helps this.

 

Do this, and then you'll be certain it's not fuel related, as i said previously, i've had some weird weird issues with the car not starting. Spent ten minutes with the gauge installed and the problem was diagnosed, it had been plaguing me for months.

 

I never said I had a guage, I said I got covered in petrol when fitting the FSA power boost vavle.

But If I do get one, I'll be refering to this.

 

Fit the Bosch blue one , that's the best amp.

 

D

 

Ampage same? plug fit? It's burried in the shed somewhere I'll fish it out and try it next.

 

The SAD wil not stop it from starting imo but have you got the connectors right between the SAD & CTS?

 

Have you run the fuel pump independently for a bit to bleed the fuel system through yet?

 

Have you tried keeping it running for longer with some easy start or similar?

 

g

CTS Coolant Temp Sensor? Yeah the CTS plug is blue, the Sad plug is black right?

It's not another one of those French things again is it when I had all the Dist arrows pointing towards the distributor!?

[welshpug 1,622]

cts is blue, as is the plug, sad is blakc, as is the plug.

 

AMP= amplifier, it is said that the blue coloured bosch units are the best, but I have had no issues with grey or black bosch units, if it works, don't worry about it IMO.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

It's not another one of those French things again is it when I had all the Dist arrows pointing towards the distributor!?

 

I hope not but dist should be pointing towards the cambelt end not the distributor iirc.

 

g

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I hope not but dist should be pointing towards the cambelt end not the distributor iirc.

 

g

A few years ago I built an engine for a mate with them pointing towards the dizzy.

I'm still getting grief about it from him.

I shouldn't have told him as it still ran OK.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Still not got it running, but checked the belt other night.

Anyone know what the other hole is for ? (top left)

The hole I've set the timing belt to is the top one to the right, It's not set in the photo, but nearly. and the other holes align with the rear cover fixings, so I thought it would be the right one.

 

 

 

The pulley came from ebay, as mine was a double thickness one (half unused) with chips out of it, so I thought it either had Air con at somepoint or it's been swapped.

 

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The correct timing hole on the pulley is the only one that an 10mm bolt will fit through, the other holes are usually smaller but it looks like you've used the right one.

 

The pulley is different to any I've seen on an 8v XU engine before, all the ones I've got have three holes close together, both smaller to either side of the timing pin hole & the two larger ones, was it definately for an XU engine?

 

I'm just wondering if you've been sold the wrong pulley & your crank / cam timing is off.

 

correct crank timing pin hole

 

g