Dimma 1.6 8V Sequential Box ?

[keithscossie 1]

Project car speculation folks !

Standard 8v motor, 1986, 5 speed box ( lift to reverse type, I cant remember the numbers! )

Is there a sequential box available that is an easy , note easy, conversion ?

I'm sort of wondering if I should go an all out road racer/ autokhana project for this car while keeping my Turbo Technics 1.9 bog standard.

Bearing in mind in Australia you cannot fit a roll cage in a road car, period.

So I'm looking to see if its viable to install a sequential box in a road car for " FUN "

And to see if a sequential box is even available !
I'm sure many of you have gone down this road b4 so I'll ask the questions b4 spending the bucks !

Cheers

Keith

 

 

[GLPoomobile 958]

Fun ain't gonna be cheap, I know that much!

[welshpug 1,622]

There are plenty of sequential boxes available, but most will be far too short ratio for road use, unless you only drive around town/city...

 

What you do have to bear in mind is that they are certainly not a fit and forget unit like the standard boxes are, they need regular servicing and maintenance.

 

 

 

Also difficult for most of us on the forum to recommend given you're across the other side of the world to most, have a search around for what's available there given you will need good service and backup.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

There are plenty of options but the predominant one here in Europe is the Sadev ST75-14 (or the newer ST82). Various choices of gear and final drive ratios so you should be able to pick something up for you but if you want to look after it, you'll be wanting to ensure you fit a flat shift system (either built into your ECU or else an add-on system by someone like Geartronics) or else become very good at 'manually' shifting it with a lift of the throttle (in reality I don't think anyone does this any more!). Once you've sorted custom driveshafts, gear stick mechanism and potentially a gear position indicator you'll be lucky if you've got any change left over from £11k...

 

They seem quite reliable though provided you look after them - use the proper oil, regularly check the dog rings and most importantly I believe - shift them properly.

[welshpug 1,622]

ST75 its the smaller lighter unit, used on TU engines typically, Citroen use a similar unit but with a direct fit TU bellhousing not a bolt on adapter.

 

the first number is the distance of the shaft centrelines, second is the tooth width, larger units cope with more torque ST is the transverse units, 75 82 and 90 (250, 420 and 480 Nm)

 

http://www.swrmotorsport.com/ is the UK agent, http://www.sadev-tm.com/en/

 

DTA ecu's will do flatshift without any extra's.

 

 

 

Currently, if you run a TU and didn't mind only 5 speeds, Citroen Sport do one at 7k euro's for a full kit, unfortunately, as mentioned its a direct fit box so only suitable for a TU block.

Edited December 28, 2012 by welshpug

[Batfink 201]

Not many people will fit sequential boxes here in the uk. For a road car it's simply too expensive for little gain other than a cool gearchange. Lug gear internals would be a damn sight cheaper

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I'd have thought if you turn up with the readies, people will fit a sequential gearbox for a customer quite happily!

 

They are a bit of an extravagance for a road car though. I was merely answering the question, but I can't say I think it's a wise investment for a road car "for a bit of fun". I was suspecting the price would put the OP off as soon as it was mentioned

 

Welshpug, I believe the 82 also has better design/provision for paddle shift systems. There are many many ECUs that'll do flat shift too - Emerald and EFI certainly do, as I'm sure do most, but the level of features varies. Most offer just a simple cut feature but the more advanced systems like geartronics allow variable cut duration based on load and current gear.

[Baz 421]

I was going to say, Emerald's can run flat-shift on even non-Seq boxes, plenty of ECU's can do it!

 

Steve's (SWR) literally 5 mins from me, good bunch and i know a few places locally that would fit & set it up as that's generally what they do!!

 

Mark Fish for example, he has plenty of experience with them having run plenty of Sadev equipped cars including Clio Cup cars, including Steve's back in the day!

 

I'd echo the above though, i really don't see the point on a road or even track car.

[matt.f 16]

No one do a dog box?

[welshpug 1,622]

plenty do, sadev being one again.

[Cathal 0]

Building my 8v 205 rally car and was considering a dog box or a sequential gear box. Which would be the best option for tarmac rallying? Any ideas??

[parry 23 1 Cars]

I was going to say, Emerald's can run flat-shift on even non-Seq boxes, plenty of ECU's can do it!

 

Steve's (SWR) literally 5 mins from me, good bunch and i know a few places locally that would fit & set it up as that's generally what they do!!

 

Mark Fish for example, he has plenty of experience with them having run plenty of Sadev equipped cars including Clio Cup cars, including Steve's back in the day!

 

I'd echo the above though, i really don't see the point on a road or even track car.

Hey Baz,

 

How would the flat shift work? No clutch or just flat to the floor throttle and clutch but ecu drops revs to alloow the shift? I am intrested

[welshpug 1,622]

Just pull the stick, switch on the stick tells ecu what to do, bang, youre in the next gear.

[parry 23 1 Cars]

on a non sequential box, must have dog gears?

[calvinhorse 870]

bang, youre in the next gear.

Bang? Sounds f***ed

[Batfink 201]

on a non sequential box, must have dog gears?

I would have thought so. With synchromesh you want a slow engagement to allow the components to connect without damage. A dog box you engage faster.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Hey Baz,

 

How would the flat shift work? No clutch or just flat to the floor throttle and clutch but ecu drops revs to alloow the shift? I am intrested

 

Be it a sequential or a H-pattern, they will all be dog-ring gearboxes rather than synchromesh. Synchros won't take the abuse or fast changes. All that is needed is a brief cut of torque to allow the dog rings to engage - in the "old" days with dog boxes people would provide a little lift of the throttle, but these days - particularly with flat-shift sequential - as WP says, a switch or load cell somewhere in the linkage senses the stick movement and the ECU cuts the ignition briefly (to the order of 40-80ms) to ease the shift.

[parry 23 1 Cars]

you learn something everyday thank you...My wish list is getting longer

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

My wish list will hopefully get one item shorter this year

[welshpug 1,622]

if you gotta lift it aint flatshift

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/welshpug/8068833151/in/set-72157631766614082/

 

dont think they'd allow that in the UK though...

Edited February 6, 2013 by welshpug

[Cathal 0]

I got a quote price of €11,500 for a Sadev ST75-14, sequential gearbox. Its a 6 speed sequential.

[welshpug 1,622]

Does that include driveshafts mounts and gearstick?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Ha, I have these to hand strangely enough the ST75-14 baselines at 8226EUR including the BE bell mounting, then add on just under 2000EUR for intermediate shaft, carrier, diff inserts and inner CV/tripod cups. So I'd be guessing if that 11500EUR is ex-VAT it includes a gearstick and gear position indicator (I believe around £600 and £400 respectively, possibly more - I didn't ask as I intend to make my own for a snip compared to those prices!).

 

Then convert to GBP and add on your VAT not in Ireland though, of course

Edited February 12, 2013 by brumster

[Cathal 0]

Ha, I have these to hand strangely enough the ST75-14 baselines at 8226EUR including the BE bell mounting, then add on just under 2000EUR for intermediate shaft, carrier, diff inserts and inner CV/tripod cups. So I'd be guessing if that 11500EUR is ex-VAT it includes a gearstick and gear position indicator (I believe around £600 and £400 respectively, possibly more - I didn't ask as I intend to make my own for a snip compared to those prices!).

 

Then convert to GBP and add on your VAT not in Ireland though, of course

You are on the ball sir!!! Don't think i'l be purchasing one of these, well not for a while anyway. Its looking like a quaife gearkit for me or else a dog gearkit