1.9 Cti Wont Start

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Went out in my car to the shop last night. When i came out it took a bit longer to start, gurgled and struggled a bit then died and havent heard a tune since. Flattened the battery eventually, had a good jump start then ended up having it towed home trying to bump it still no tune. Im pretty sure its because of the freezing temperature as it cut out a few times last winter when it was really bitter but then it did eventually start up again. Ive had the heat gun on all the vulnerable bit (cap dizzy coil ignition amp throttle switch AFM ECU etc) to warm em all up a bit. Had the cap off its go no moisture in it and is like new condition. The plugs are firing and the pumps working and theres fuel pressure in the rail but wont bloody start. Anyone got any ideas please?

 

 

Oh ive tried another working AFM on it too no different.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Slo

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Ignition amp?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Could be anything but the afm is the only part i have another of. Do you think the ignition amp could fail in severe cold temperature but work properly when its not so cold? The odd thing about it is that it seems to be firing ok and the pump is working and theres definately fuel in the rail which is making me think maybe its the ecu and the injectors themselves may not be opening.

[welshpug 1,626]

If you have spark it can only be fuel.

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Flooded? Pull plugs, spin over empty and clean plugs up

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

does it spark under load thou?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Not sure what you mean by that miles, ive tried starting it in gear if thats what you mean?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

OK heres the culprit, frozen waterpump+start engine+drive away=ripped teeth on cambelt=slipped belt=SH!T

 

Its still in one piece though and the camshaft turns on the starter despite this and theres been no metal to metal noises at any time

I reckon its just knocked the timing out a bit so will try a new belt for the sake of the amount of time/effort it will take to swap the head/whole thing

 

 

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Piss flaps.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Right bought a gates cambelt kit and new water pump, tried it and engines goosed and im pissed as is was a sweet lump - now lots of smoke very rough running apart from full throttle no idle etc and then stopped and wont start again. Got a dilemma now do i take the head off and put some new valves in or cut my losses and go the 2.0 turbo route, ive already got the engine and wiring loom/ecu/keypad etc.

 

Or is it worth saving?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Before anything else I would compression test it to see how many cylinders are down on compression. Even though you have the 2.0 turbo stuff, you will spend far more getting it all neatly in and working than you will spend on getting the head sorted out. I have just had one done for a lad, skim, new valbe guides, 4 new exhaust valves, cut seats, Reshim cam, plus gasket set and cambelt, cost £277 Inc VAT.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Thats sounds attractive to me as although i do like the rough sound of the old girl it is fair to say she's a bit of a rattler, what the turn around to have all that done then tom? Oh and i know what you mean about the cost to ge tthe turbo stuff in there.

 

EDIT: Does the reshimming get round the worn camshaft issue?

Edited December 19, 2012 by Slo

[welshpug 1,626]

Have to agree with Tom, getting the turbo up and running neatly and reliably is no easy task, there is a LOT going on with that engine and management, cooling pipes etc, whereas a fairly straightforward cylinder head refurbishment can be complete far quicker.

 

Re-shimming wont really work for a worn out camshaft as its a poor attempt at masking the issue where the only cure for that is a replacement, not costly though.

 

However it is necessary when any valve or valve seat work is carried out.

 

Have to say I was quite pleasantly surprised the last time I did get the clearances sorted on an 8 valver, and that was a Peugeot sport gravel cam so not short of lumpyness!

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

what the turn around to have all that done then tom?

Dropped it off Monday, collected it Thursday, obviously this time of year depends what days they are working.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Im fixing it but after taking the head off ive come across a few issues.

 

Reading the haynes manual, I get the tighten first stage then loosen off and retighten to second stage then a further 120 degrees bit, then further down it says to run the engine till the fan comes on then turn off allow to cool for 2 hours then to retighten the head bolts and retention the cambelt but it doesnt say by how much or whether to slacken everything off and start from scratch again!

 

Got 2 banana valves now 1 inlet that still closed and 1 outlet well bent, pick new ones up in the morning already got the head set and bolts. Theres some corrosion on the head as to be expected but its between 2 waterways so not really worried about it i'll repair it with some mait.

 

 

Apart from the small areas of corrosion above the whole engine seems to be in pretty good nick for a 24 year old engine.

 

After i popped the gasket off and looked into the block liners 1 and 2 (1 at clutch end) are almost completely surrounded by rust sediment, i say rust but it looks almost like sand and ive scraped out as much as i can get a screwdriver into and given it a pretty good rinse out but it was packed in pretty tight. The liners dont seem to have moved at all thankfully.

 

Pulled out the old stem seals tonight emery clothed every mating surface and autosol'd all the good valves in my drill

 

Onwards and upwards

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

You do realise that your new valves will need the seats recut and then the shims ground to suit? It is not just as simple as fitting 2 new valves.

Also your Haynes torque procedure is only for the very early engines that did not use stretch bolts. If your head bolts were T55 torx head then they are stretch bolts, no slackening and re torquing after an hours running, but the angle tightening bit is +300 degr.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Is it a 1.6? I know the low comp ones are valve safe as they don't even open past the top of the chambers

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Thanks tom for pointing that out, i see the difference now in the later edition haynes book, but it does say to slacken before stage 2?. My old bolts look different to these new bolts ive got but they are the same length and width and thread size. I've ground in the valves. Its taking forever to do because of the freezing cold and im not well at the moment. Miles its a 1.9, I think it was you who told me that from the engine code (D6B). There were 6 valves that had contacted the pistons but only 2 of them were bent. 2 days till christmas and this

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It's got the GTi engine then

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Not anymore its knackered so going the turbo route, i've always wanted to do this having had my 605 for 8 years and originally got my cti with this intention but had planned to do it in summer, not middle/start of winter and stuck with no car so might just buy a cheap motor for 6 months. The biggest worry i've had about the conversion is the gearbox. Can i use the be1 gearbox? I've got an mi16 flywheel and a clutch kits on its way. The ME5T box from the 605 has a crank sensor in it for the flywheel, but has the be1 got a hole to put one in? Also will the speed sensor fit into it too?

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

The biggest worry i've had about the conversion is the gearbox. Can i use the be1 gearbox? I've got an mi16 flywheel and a clutch kits on its way. The ME5T box from the 605 has a crank sensor in it for the flywheel, but has the be1 got a hole to put one in? Also will the speed sensor fit into it too?

 

You can use the Be1 gearbox but without you having a look on your box, there is no way we can say if you have the hole for the CAS, as some do & others don't.

 

The VSS will fit into the Be1 box but has it got the hole for the speedo cable on the 605, as with the Be1 CAS hole, some do & others don't.

 

g

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Yes it has i have everything from the 605 thanks for that ill have a good look at the be1 after work tonight

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

I've had a good look and the speed sensor from the ME5T box does indeed fit inside the BE1 box and yes the speed sensor has the hole in the top for the speedo cable

 

 

My BE1 gearbox also has the same hole for the crank sensor.....

 

 

as the one in the ME5T box

 

 

Next question is how do you get these out without destroying them? Ive never had a survivor to date lol

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Next question is how do you get these out without destroying them? Ive never had a survivor to date lol

 

Carefully & not using brute force.

 

The CAS should come out fairly easily once the securing bolt is removed but the VSS needs very careful prying around its edge to get it moving, again once the bolt has been removed, you might be able to gentley hold it with an adjustable on the lower body to twist it loose but iirc you can't turn it far due to the shape but they should come out without to much trouble.

 

g.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

The vss just twisted out easy but as you can see the cas has no bolt in it already, I havent removed that bolt myself and it was my daily driver for 8 years and its stuck in tighter than a 30 year old abs sensor in a rusty hub