Fitting Emerald To 1.9 8V

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Now then

As iv just bought a 309 Goodwood thats been sat for about 8-10 years iv finay managed to get it fired up today and its running fairly poorly..

 

So i got thinking, iv got a spare emerald ecu and pre made loom for an mi16... which i could just bung on this new goodwood...

 

Theres a few things im not sure on, which im after a little advice..

 

Firstly the Gti engine is in a 92 car so im 99% sure i wont be lucky enought to have a 36-1 flywheel.. If i was to buy one of these "universal 36-1 trigger wheel kits" off ebay, how dificult is it to fit and time up correctly.. surely i can only get it wrong 35 times!

 

2ndly, as the dizzy will be getting ditched im obiously going to have to blank off the hole, and use the 106 coil pack that i have, Is there any off-the-shelf leads that will clip into the 106 coil pack, and into the gti head..

 

Thirdly, the air temp sensor, where do people reccomend i put that? i was thinking of cleaning the bottom of the inlet manifold out and putting it in place of the SAD hose... Good plan??

 

And finaly just any advice off anyone thats done this conversion in the past would be appriciated! If you have done it, did it make a big difference to the running of the car? etc etc

 

Cheers

Paul.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You will need the flywheel, either a XU7 one which is still 200mm clutch dia or upgrade to the 215mm type, Never liked the front pulley idea personally

 

Coil pack wise is easy, just get some ZX Volcane leads (Used same engine) but only in 1992, some 405's did but never seen one of these

 

ATS you want in the air inlet pipes and not the manifold as it will get hot

 

On my old 1.6 I made a gain of 9 bhp

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Cool cheers for the replies Miles, 2 of the problems sorted!

 

Why are you not keen on the pully trigger set up? reliability or poor quality parts? I could easily fit the flywheel, clutch, box and all that jaz from my MI16 but i cant realy be botherd with the hassle! I just thought bolting up a triger wheel would be a much easier way to do things!

 

Another question iv been pondering today, Will there be any implications to just chopping out all the ECU wiring etc (obviously im aware that the rev guge and fuel pump will be controlled by the emerald) but is there anyhting else i should worry about?!

 

 

As for the 9HP gain thats quite a difference, almost 10% I might rolling road the car before and after just for the crack!!

 

Cheers guys

Paul

 

 

EDIT: if i do go for fitting the flywheel, is there a lighter weight clutch that the mi16 one i could use??

Edited November 14, 2012 by M_R_205

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Firstly the Gti engine is in a 92 car so im 99% sure i wont be lucky enought to have a 36-1 flywheel.. If i was to buy one of these "universal 36-1 trigger wheel kits" off ebay, how dificult is it to fit and time up correctly.. surely i can only get it wrong 35 times!

I agree with miles & would source either an XU7 or Mi flywheel & use the 215mm clutch, that's what I have on mine running MP3.1.

 

Is there any off-the-shelf leads that will clip into the 106 coil pack, and into the gti head.

If you can find them, the leads for a 1994 205 1.6 spi auto engine are the same as those from the ZX with the correct spark plug end boot & uses the same coilpack as the 106.

 

Thirdly, the air temp sensor, where do people reccomend i put that?

I've put mine in the inlet hose between the air filter & throttle body, that's where it is fitted on the Zx Volcane which had MP3.1 from the factory.

 

Doesn't Feb's 1.9 run Emerald on an otherwise relatively standard engine?

 

It'll be a large step forwards compared to the Jetronic system, running on mp3.1 makes the car a whole different animal for daily use.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about the clutch & flywheel weight, iirc an Mi flywheel is lighter than the 1.9 as standard anyway.

 

g

[Anthony 1,000]

I did a back to back conversion on a 1.9 SBC engine (Feb's mentioned above)

 

Driving manners and starting were certainly improved, but performance? Very little. Hard to give an accurate figure as heat soak on the rolling road would have undoubtably had an effect, but the before and after test showed within 1-2hp from memory.

 

My suspicion is that many of the claimed big increases are over engines that weren't running optimally in the first place, and particularly with 8v's, that's many of them as dizzys, AFM's etc are all past their best. This is evident in other areas as well, such as people thinking that mid-20's to the gallon is normal.

 

Look at it another way - the outright figures were very similar between Jetronic (205 GTi) and Motronic 3.1 (ZX Volcane 1.9) on what is pretty much the same engine, the later obviously being proper management.

 

Undoubtably if you're going to do it though, use a Motronic flywheel and not a trigger wheel on the crank pulley. The flywheel will work and be a known quantity, whereas the trigger wheel will be a headache - it really needs to be correct to 1 degree not just one tooth, and then you've got to get it mounted true and fabricate some method of properly holding the pickup. For the sake of removing a gearbox and changing the flywheel, it's madness to even consider IMO.

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Ok, advice on the flywheel duly noted and accepted!

 

Also the loom I already have was made to fit the mi16 engine, so I'd have to fit a greater length of shielded cable!!

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

I'm surprised it showed so little improvement between dizzy & coilpack set up but like you say, if everything on the jetronic 1.9 is in fine fettle then there isn't going to be much gain but drive-ability (torque) felt to have much better delivery on mp3.1.

 

Although I have no before figures, my scrappy engine build with standard exhaust & manifold made 140bhp from the piper cam & head skim with similar results shown by wp's car iirc.

 

Also the loom I already have was made to fit the mi16 engine, so I'd have to fit a greater length of shielded cable!!

Why? Or do you mean to use the crank trigger wheel?

 

The CPS in in the same place as on the Mi so should be fine with the same length of cable.

 

g

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

That's what I meant sorry, I'd need a longer bit to reach to the other side of the engine!

 

Anyone have any comments on chopping out the old ECU wiring? Straight forwards or anything I need to be careful of?!

[welshpug 1,627]

if you already have an emerald loom for an MI, check to see if it has the temp gauge oil temp pressure etc in it, of so no need to do any hacking whatsoever, just remove the old loom complete.

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

The emerald loom I already have is minimal to make the engine go, ECU sensors and injector/coil drivers

[welshpug 1,627]

two ways to approach it, either make a new loom for the ancillaries, which isn't much, or strip that from the original 20-25 year old 205 loom....

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Old loom just comes out complete, I tend to cut where it goes over the steering col for speed or you can remove the dash if you want to get it out complete

 

Power wise mine was on my old blueprinted 1.6 engine where it was all as new or better, mind this was back in 1998 when they where still quite new, Figures where both from the same RR too abit 1 year later, Torque was improved but cannot remember the figure now

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Well I'm going to pick up some relays and wires and tackle it next weekend I think , not having a garage is a pain in the behind for working on it !!

 

Performance wise it does seen sluggish which us part of the reason for fitting the emerald, I'm guessing most of the origional injection system is shot, so not performing as it should, il be more than happy if I get back up to around oe power!

[Anthony 1,000]

Wouldn't it be easier, not to mention a hell of a lot cheaper, to just address the failing(s) in the original management? It's a simple enough system after all.

 

Obvious question - if this car has been sat for 8-10 years and you've just got it running, you have got all the stale fuel out of the system haven't you? That will certainly do it no favours when it comes to running well, and I would imagine that period of time is easily enough that the fuel will have started "varnishing" which is probably doing the filter, injectors and do on no favours either.

 

Probably reasonable to assume that most of the ignition consumables are past their prime too.

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Anthony, I have all the emerald setup already, it's sat in un-used in my garage,

 

And I have already drained and cleaned the tank, replaced the pump, filter and injectors. The reason it wouldn't start in the first place was that the fuel in the bottom of the pump had turned into treacle type thing and wouldn't allow the pump to spin,

 

Also I feel my time and money would be better spent fitting a modern programable ECU than trying to revive an arkaik system.. Granted if I had to pay out 600£ for the ECU I'd probably agree with your pov!

 

Paul