Help My 1.6 Wont Rev Past 4500

[damedamedame 0]

hi newb here i am well well perplexed please help..

ok so i have just bought a 205 gti (car 1) wich turned out to have a damaged bottom end, the car came with a "spare blueprinted engine" which was not in fact blue printed, and WAS in fact also kapput!! i advertised the fact i needed an engine and a fellow racer offered me another car (car 2) for a good price due to some minor-ish front end damage i bought that, fixed the front end and took it for a test..... head gasket blew after 10 laps,

 

so now we are 5 days away from a race i am entered for and i have 2 choices,

 

fix the head gasket (which also involved needing to take it to an engine shop to check the head, not to mention the risk of disturbing the liners

 

or

 

swap the engine for 1 i was told on very good authority was very good.

 

so i opted to swap the engine out.

that all went well apart from a few minor hiccups, any way we got it running it fired up really easily, its got 210 psi compression great oil pressure etc, but whilst it sounds sweet as a nut, it just wont rev beyond 4500,

 

a mate who also races says its either the airflow meter or dizzy.

I have tried another dizzy but i dont have a spare airflow meter, or at least not the same as whats on it,

 

i have a spare that i could use from car 1 but its different,

car 2 is a late car apparently and has a different ecu and airflow meter amongst other things,

 

what i need to know please is, has anyone else had this problem and will a new airflow meter defo fix it or is it likely to be dizzy?? and also do you have a know to be working airflow meter i can try before i buy have spent almost every waking hour on it lately and am really tired!

cheers

[Anthony 1,000]

Ignition amp failing can cause a rev limit like symptom, typically in the region of 4000rpm.

 

Check the cam timing is correct as well, as if the belt is a tooth or two out it can refuse to rev.

[damedamedame 0]

ok will swap the amps however i was told that they either work or they dont so if its running is does that not suggest its not that... I hsve no clue but just need to ask the question Cheers Anthony

[Anthony 1,000]

Nope it's not that clear cut - indeed, it's rare in my experience for them to completely fail

[damedamedame 0]

ok nice 1 bud thanks

[damedamedame 0]

just to add, to help eliminate possible causes of the problems if anyone local has an air flow meter i could put on and try before i have to buy 1

[damedamedame 0]

any 205 owners in worcester area can help with this?

cheers

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

Its probably unlikely but have you checked the throttle cable? mine was poorly adjusted being to0 tight and wasnt allowing the throttle butterfly to open fully.

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

Hi there.....i live in your area and even though i know nothing about cars (learning the hard way) i own a phase 1.5 1.9 205 gti on a h plate. Its a none cat, none power steering model. I have changed the ign amp and the airflow meter on my car so i have them knocking around the garage. They seemed to make no difference to the problem that i was experiencing so i assume the parts to be good. The ignition amp is made by Ducellier and the only no i can see on it is 2528008A. The airflow meter is a Bosch one with the part no 0 280 202 109 on it. I can drop them up to you if you want to have a play....however, like i said i have no knowledge on cars.

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

Edit.....sorry just realised your car is a 1.6....my bad

[welshpug 1,627]

that ignition amp will still work, same part.

[damedamedame 0]

hi Bondyshambles that would be great, or i can collect, thanks for the offer, if they work i could make u an offer if you are happy to sell em?,

part of the problem i have is that as a later car, it has (i am told) it has alot of the 1.9 stuff on it, ie the ecu is different the afm is too so even if it just narrows down the possible causes

cheers

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

I have PM'd you....that means messaged you...newby and all

[damedamedame 0]

ha cheers have replied, nice 1 bud

[309jazzpanda 39]

Did the coil sort this?

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

I went round last night with a different AFM and amp....but the problem was still there.

[Vili 17]

Doesn't it rev past 4500 on neutral gear? If the limit is the same 4500 rpm at any gear that would suggest it is a distributor problem. Change the distributor from another engine and I mean the whole thing not only the cap.

[damedamedame 0]

big thanks again to Bondy..thanks for trying bud

jazz panda, no the coil made no difference

vili, i did swap the entire dizzy, changed the plugs the leads the cap the arm the fuel filter the leads, the only thing i dont have is a spare air flow meter thats the same part number as mine ( mine has the plug and an adjuster screw will put the part number up tomorrow

[damedamedame 0]

the air flow meter on the car is part number

 

0280202202

 

and looks like this

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261112725218?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

if you have 1 i can try before i buy i would be greatfull, happy to pay for it if it gets her going, not happy to keep forking out on stuff thats making no difference. cheers

dame

[Anthony 1,000]

Hang on a minute - that's a 1.9 CAT/Mi16 AFM for Motronic management... whereas your 1.6 should have Jetronic.

 

What's the part number on the ECU (probably located under the dash next to the steering column)?

[damedamedame 0]

will get it when i'm home

the guy i bought the car off said all the loom etc was the same as a 1.9, its defo not a 1.6 ecu, i.e. its got 3 rows of pins instead of the standard 2 rows on the 1.6

 

i was told it was like this coz its a late 1.6 and closer to the time when emision control was becoming more of a hot topic with manufacturers?

sorry if i hadnt made that clear before

[dcc 855]

1.6 doesn't have 2 rows.

 

you can swap injectors, afm, amp, ecu, dizzy between 1.9 and 1.6 items - albeit they wont work properly unless matched up. ie. 1.6 injectors, dizzy, ecu -

 

I had this '4k' rev limit on one of my cars after refitting the 8v engine. from memory I had the wrong AFM fitted. (a 1.9 item instead of 1.6) but i also changed the dizzy.

[Anthony 1,000]

Sounds like you've got a full 1.9 CAT Motronic management setup on the car. If so, the ECU will be 0261 200 162.

 

I have absolutely no idea how well that's going to work on a 1.6, or even whether that is the underlying cause of the issue, but either way you need to ignore typical 1.6/1.9 Jetronic advice as many of the things that apply to Jetronic aren't applicable on Motronic - the dizzy for example isn't a "real" dizzy, merely something to attach an arm/cap to, and the ignition timing is ECU controlled.

 

1.6 GTi's never had Motronic - they were always Jetronic, and they didn't get a CAT or other emissions nonsense either.

[damedamedame 0]

anthony, i will check, sorry to be thick but everything says bosch on it so far not seen jetronic or motronic on anything( i think there may have been a duselier dizy on it at some point but i understand what you mean about the dizzy not being a real dizzy ie it gets its timing off the ecu? possitioning of the dizzy makes no difference to ow it runs..( that freaked me out!!!)

 

as for how well or other wise it would run, as i said, its a race car and was a front running car so when its good, its good, i just need to get it to rev......

.... for what its worth, the original engine had the yellow injectors and this replacement engine had( and still has the blue injectors) i did ask someone and he said it wont make a difference..... is he right or do i need to swap the blues out for the yellows in?

cheers

[Anthony 1,000]

The whole thing sounds like a bit of a lash up frankly!

 

Both Jetronic and Motronic are Bosch management systems, the former being fuelling only and the later fuelling and ignition. The AFM that you've got is defo a Motronic item, and your mention of a 3-row ECU suggests that is Motronic too - Jetronic ECU's are only 2-row (and a smaller plug too).

 

Personally, I think that I would just put the whole thing back onto the 1.6 Jetronic management that it should have, as at least that is designed for the engine in question.

 

If you keep the current setup - assuming it is what I think it is - then you will need to swap the 1.6 (blue) injectors for some 1.9 (yellow) ones, as that is what the ECU fuelling map is based on. I'm still far from convinced that it'll ever be "right" for the 1.6 engine though.