Megasquirt For Stock 1.9 8V

[mastakilla 1]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed many times before, but most of you are running 16v or modified engines in your 205 and there is not much recent information about replacing ecu in a standard engine.

Basically what I'd like to do, or at least decide wether it's worth or not, is replacing the antiquate electronic management of the engine with a megasquirt, mantaining most of the original look but improving on power, torque, reliability and fuel consumption.

I would do this as a hobby project to get the most out of my 205 and to learn something about ECUs and megasquirt in particular, ideally I'd like to run the two systems (original + MS) side by side being able to switch from one to another until I reach the point in which I can definitely get rid of the stock management.

The amount of information available on MS is overwhelming, so much that I find it difficult to just start digging into it: is there someone that has done this (I guess) simple conversion that can give some advice?

Which hardware should I buy (MS I/II/III, sensors, tps, looms), injection and/or spark management? Figures before/after, things like that!

Thank you very much

[andy0075 9 1 Cars]

Hello,

 

i don't know if the conversion really brings you any power advantiges, but i can help you

to connect the MS to the original Bosch connector if you want.

 

I think the best MS for you is the MS2. I use a MS2 3.57SMD with the MSExtra Software.

 

How to start ?......read the manual three times

I read it a view times and now i understand most of the things

 

Here is how to connect the MSII to the original XU9JAZ loom ( i made this a view years ago ) :

 

 

If you want i can sell you my old adapter i have made to connect the MSII direkt to the Bosch connector

instead of the original ECU. You have nothing to change except the original throttle position switch, because

you need a throttle position sensor for the MS. I don't need it any longer. It is a made as a printed circuit board

with a Boschplug and a SubD37 plug on it. You just plug it between the MSII and the original Bosch connector.

 

If you need more help, e.g. the complete configuration file for the Megasquirt to get the engine running, just ask

 

What you also should buy : A wideband O2 sensor + controller to get the engine mapped and running it safely.

 

 

Andy

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

No issues with using a MS1 on V3 PCB either .

 

Works fine on Mi16, so it should work fine on a Motronic GTI as well .

 

You can do it in two stages, like I have - get it running on MS injection and standard ignition.

When you get that running nicely, then switch to full MS control and at least you'll know that

the injections map is good for further tuning to begin with.

 

However, for mapping and tuning, you will also need a WBO2 sensor (and preferably EGT too).

[welshpug 1,622]

are you looking to modify the engine or simply improve its "manners" and behaviour?

[Anthony 1,000]

I've done what you're proposing on a mildly tweaked 1.9 8v, albeit using Emerald rather than Megasquirt, and my honest opinion? Don't bother.

 

On a car that I was building for someone last year, at their request I upgraded it from a fairly well setup Jetronic setup to Emerald, and had it professionally mapped.

 

Fuel economy? No noticeable difference - certainly within about 1mpg

Power and torque? Wasn't noticeable stronger/quicker, and the dyno figures were similar on the before and after runs (although heat soak on the dyno by that point may have adversely affected the after figures). It did subjectively feel more eager and responsive, but wasn't night and day.

Manners? Yes, this was improved - cold starting/idling was better and kangerooing was eliminated.

 

Now, I'm sure that compared to a typical setup the Emerald would have been a noticeable improvement, but against a properly setup standard management there really wasn't much in it and certainly you could never have justified the costs involved. Too many people assume that a car that constantly stalls, hunts at idle, doesn't pull cleanly and returns mid 20's to the gallon is "normal" - it isn't, not by a long shot.

 

Jetronic will never be the most well mannered setup out there as it is rather clunky and crude - hell, the original road tests commented on that by the standards of the mid-80's let alone today - but in terms of power and economy it still works surprisingly well if you take the time to get it properly setup and replace/recon the inevitable knackered AFM and distributor. Most people don't or know no better, including sadly many so called "experts"

 

For a totally standard engine, I would just source a Motronic MP3.1 setup from a Citroen ZX Volcane 1.9 and use that as it works superbly out of the box, although they are getting quite hard to find now. Failing that, if you're using Jetronic, then the Motronic M1.3 setup (ideally with a reconditioned AFM) from a late 205 CAT equipped car. Both will do away with the woes that Jetronic typically suffers, and at considerable less cost than a Megasquirt - let alone mapping.

[mastakilla 1]

@andy0075: Great answer and great info too! Your connector sounds like the perfect tool to make a soft transition to MS without having to rewire the whole engine..I'll read carefully the manual three times anyway but from what I understand I would just need a TPS taken from a donor car (I've seen ford ones used in 205s), a custom bracket for it, and a O2 sensor which I can bolt to the exhaust tube for a cheap fix, or screw in a aftermarket exhaust manifold with the hole for it. I forgot to mention that I have a 87 1.9 phase 1 non cat, if that makes any difference

 

@cybernck: I looking at the various megasquirts, I'd like to tinker with the software and the various parameters, but not as much with the hardware as I have no electronic soldering skills..plus I think a smd MS would be more tough for everyday use..am I wrong?

I like the two phase approach, between managed injection and ignition which is the one that gives more advantages over stock setup? From what I have understood with injection alone I could get rid of the AFM, the poor idle, the too rich running and the poor mpg, is that true?

 

@welshpug: At the moment I have no plans for big modifications to the engine, I just want to improve its behaviour, as you say. Maybe I'll put a cone filter and an exhaust, or will raise a bit the CR when the time will come for a head overhaul but nothing major for now.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

On a Jetronic with a distributor controlled ignition - yes, I suppose you could do away with AFM.

 

(On Motronic, however, one would need to retain AFM because it gives load information to the ECU that controls both injection and ignition.)

 

I have not bothered with TPS personally and just used the internal MAP sensor for engine load.

 

 

By the way, it's a shame not many people have experienced a Motronic 1.3 equipped CAT GTI - it always starts up, runs the same, doesn't kangaroo etc.

[mastakilla 1]

Anthony, always great info comes from you..definitely something to think about, as much as I'd like to tinker with MS, I'm not going to do it just because.

I'll take a look at the AFM regulation threads and see if I can get the most out of it before going on with the MS idea then...

[welshpug 1,622]

I'd certainly look for an mp3.1 setup in your case then, works very nicely even on modified engines and can be mapped if you find someone capable, or even diy if you understand it enough, i think james (wracing) knows a lot about that side of it.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Back in the distant past I ran my standard GTi on a MSI ecu, just running the injection. I ran the two system sort of in parallel, as I was concerned with the MS being reliable. The only real modification was to changed the throttle 'switch' for a proper throttle pot, and to t-off a vacuum for the map sensor. To swap between the two systems, you just connected the injector leads and water temp sensor to the ecu you wanted to use.

 

If you want to play around with the settings then this is an idea.

 

Mad.

[DamirGTI 323]

Motronic 1.3 equipped CAT GTI - it always starts up, runs the same, doesn't kangaroo etc.

 

Ditto i prefer the Motronic 1.3 .. though , my Jetronic one works as good as the Motronic , it's well adjusted (AFM , dizzy , all new sensors etc.) no complain on the Jetronic one what so ever this one drives smooth , has rock stable idle , always fires up ...

 

Damir