Have I Killed My Beloved Pug?

[AlexN 7]

Well I think I have royally screwed up this time.

 

I haven't been posting on here for a while, things have been a bit hectic recently, but now when I thought everything had settled down my car goes and springs an almighty oil leak.

 

Whilst driving home last night I noticed strange intermittent warning lights, the STOP light and the temperature warning light (literally flashing on for a fraction of a second). I took it easy for the rest of the way home (it was on the M1 so I was still going 70 odd). When I got home and idled the engine started tap-tap-tapping and I then knew what the warning lights were about, all my oil was gone. Still haven't found out what caused the leak (too dark and no torch) but I refilled it and fired it up.

 

It started and ran but initially it sounded like a bag of bolts. Once the oil reached the head again it started to sound smoother. I have no choice but to use to tomorrow (today) but I want to know a) what damage have am I likely to have done to the engine and what does it cost to do a complete rebuild (I'm sure the head gasket is on the way out so I was contemplating removing the whole engine anyway, might extend this to a rebuild while i'm at it).

 

I need to use the car at least until the bank holiday weekend, so I hope that it will last that long. I also need to track down the leak (there is oil everywhere under the car). In the mean time I will have to carry 10 litres of oil with me everywhere.

 

This sucks completely as I had just got the car running nicely and reliably up to now

I will be devastated if there is serious damage.

 

Please set my mind at ease!

 

I'll report back on here how it drove later, obviously i'll be taking it very easy

[triple_a_motorsport 0]

The tapping was obviously because the tappets had no oil, which i dont think would cause any serious problems. The only thing you need to be really careful of are the bottom end bearings as if they run dry that causes all sorts of damage the same with the camshaft, so just be gentle with her and if the light flashes fill her up!

 

As for the re-build it could cost anything it depends what you want to replace or what needs replacing, if you damage the crank that could be a very expensive replacement as they are not easy to come by.

 

How many miles has it done?

[AlexN 7]

I don't know what the exact mileage of the engine is, the guy I bought the car off claimed it had been rebuilt in the recent past but was very vague about it. There is 150000 on the clock, but the engine has (had?) been running very sweetly with no noises or smoke.

 

I know I should have guessed something was wrong when those lights came on but as far as I could tell they weren't indicating low oil. The tapping only seemed to start when the car was idling just as I parked. I guess it was because the oil pressure dropped at idle, and I also guess this means that there was still some oil in the engine.

 

As for the source of the leak that remains a mystery. I checked the most obvious things like the sump plug but I'm pretty sure its not that. The oil does seem to be leaking from the drivers side of the engine. I can't get under the car until tonight at the earliest to have a good look. I'm going striaght to Tesco to buy some cheap oil this morning!

[welshpug 1,622]

I'm going striaght to Tesco to buy some cheap oil this morning!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I hope thats by foot!

 

fill her back up with oil, then let it idle, DONT rev it before the oil has circulated, then try and find that leak, if its really that bad it will die soon!

[AlexN 7]

I'm going striaght to Tesco to buy some cheap oil this morning!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I hope thats by foot!

 

fill her back up with oil, then let it idle, DONT rev it before the oil has circulated, then try and find that leak, if its really that bad it will die soon!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I filled it up last night and let it run round the engine gently. The oil from Tesco is for reserve to get me home from work tonight! I can't believe the scale of the leak! What can fail that would empty an engine in a few hours of driving? It seems to be coming out under a bit of pressure as there is oil covering the subframe and inner wing. Could it be the crank oil seal?

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Sounds like a blown oil seal somewhere

[AlexN 7]

Well what ever has caused the leak i've reached the end of my patience, the car is going to be taken off the road on the bank holiday weekend and i'm not driving it again until I am completely happy that everything that could possibly break has been replaced or repaired. I'm really looking forward to the challenge and in the mean time I'm going to buy a crappy old diesel to motivate me to get the 4bie back on the road.

 

Out of interest, how rare is it crack the block? The oil is pouring out from somewhere above the the sump (directly inline with the sump plug as it drips off the plug). What is there in that region that could be leaking apart from a crack? I'm pretty sure that its not the crank seal. I can't get access to the area because of the transfer box.

Edited April 25, 2007 by AlexN

[Roland1345402284 0]

Well what ever has caused the leak i've reached the end of my patience, the car is going to be taken off the road on the bank holiday weekend and i'm not driving it again until I am completely happy that everything that could possibly break has been replaced or repaired. I'm really looking forward to the challenge and in the mean time I'm going to buy a crappy old diesel to motivate me to get the 4bie back on the road.

 

Out of interest, how rare is it crack the block? The oil is pouring out from somewhere above the the sump (directly inline with the sump plug as it drips off the plug). What is there in that region that could be leaking apart from a crack?  I'm pretty sure that its not the crank seal. I can't get access to the area because of the transfer box.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just wondering if the leak is from the oil level sensor. This is at the back of the block in line with the transfer case. About level with cylinder 2 (from gearbox end).

You might be able to get a mirror on a stick and have a look at it from down past the battery. A good strong trouble light will help as well!

[Guest pugmt]

You say it is in line with the sump plug, my best guess is the cam cover gasket. You may think that this leak is to much for this, but i had one of these leaking oil some years ago and it actually runs out at a rate like you wouldn't beleive, due to the fact the engine is canted backwards.

 

I take it is definatly leaking down the back of the block and isn't leaking from the front and being blown backwards when you are driving?

[imaS 0]

If cam cover gasket leaks that much it creates much of smoke and smells a lot, because all oil goes to exhaust manifold.

[Baz 421]

I doubt you've cracked the block tbh.

 

When you park it up you're obviously getting oil under the car yes? I know it sounds alot, but it could be something minor really, so if you can, clean up the engine as much as you can, all the bits you can see, then run the engine and look for any new oil, obviously any rcent leaks will be wetter and thinner than an old oil/grease thats escaped before, making it easier to see.

Edited May 2, 2007 by BazGTMi

[Jer309GTi 3]

If cam cover gasket leaks that much it creates much of smoke and smells a lot, because all oil goes to exhaust manifold.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is very true, and as said in another thread you will be surprised at the amount of oil that can drip out of the cam cover gasket. The huge oil slick on my drive is the proof!

 

When the oil is hot, it is thin and so leaks easier. Plus my drive is on a slope so even more oil collects around the back of the gasket.

 

On the plus side, I dont think my subframe or floorpan are ever going to rust

[AlexN 7]

I'm getting no smoke so i'm pretty sure it's not coming from the rocker cover. The oil level sensor sounds interesting, although checking it could be a pain. I've been advised that if the head gasket goes you can get a leak from the high pressure oil feed to the head. This could be likely.

 

I cleaned the block and replaced the sump gasket to see if it was leaking from there, it's not. But when I started the car after cleaning it I saw oil running down the back of the cam belt cover.

 

Whatever the problem is it's not easily fixable so i'm still going to take her off the road for a bit of an upgrade! I've been looking for an excuse to do this for a while, and it's also gives me a good reason to get my bike out of the garage and start cycling again! 100 miles a week on the bike should get me fit and save me a packet!

 

Out of interest, I want to overhaul the entire engine so its like new again when I put it back in. Could someone who has done this give me a shopping list for parts I need.

 

Thanks for all the responses by the way!

[Baz 421]

If it's the cam cover as you think, it's not that difficult to fix!

[pug309twin40s 1]

could be one of the camshaft pulley oilseals if the oil is running down the back of the cambelt cover

[AlexN 7]

Without stripping the engine to get access to the camshaft seals and the rear of the engine there is not much I can do to find/fix the leak. I don't have the space or time to fix it up here so i'm taking the car on a sabatical to my parents place (still have their uses!) in Cornwall where it will have a bit of R&R and TLC and come back raring to go!

[Baz 421]

If it's one of the camshaft seals then it should be pretty evident from the sides, remove the cambelt cover and have a look, and the same with the PAS pulley or round the dizzy cap on gearbox side?