405 Mi16-6 - a GTI-6 gearbox conversion

[PugMi16 0]

Well I'm not sure since i haven't found anywhere on the internet or heard elsewhere, so for now I am proud to present first standard-to-gti-6 gearbox conversion! I bought this gearbox from cybernck and got it today! So during the next week, starting on monday, the conversion will be made - I hope so

 

Possible trouble:

 

1. Not sure does it fit

2. Also not sure does it fit

3. I will need another anlaser (electro starter)

 

 

But there should be no trouble in solving this, any ideas or advices are more than welcome

[welshpug 1,622]

definitely not the first!

 

IIRC someones car here (A dark coloured P1 in devon IIRC) has a 6 speed box before they bought it re-converted to 5speed

 

to answer your questions.

 

1, yes, but you need to swap the housing off your old 5 speed unit to run the speedo.

 

2. yes, IIRC every BE uses the same spline pattern.

 

3. yes, same again, it will fit.

 

I have a gearbox in the shed to do the same conversion.

 

on a phase 1 you need to swap the clutch release arm over to retain the original clutch cable, and swap one of the linkage brakets off the old gearbox, and plug in your reverse stop cable, and as mentioned above swap over the speedo drive housing.

 

 

on a phase 2, the cable works the same way so no problems there, then you need to find a P1 lift up reverse gearstick and cable, swap over a bracket on the gearbox and again swap over the speedo drive housing.

 

also IIRC the anti roll bar needs spacing backwards by 10mm, this is done by simply placing a 10mm thick plate between the subframe and the roll bar clamps, with longer bolts to accommodate.

 

 

Hope that helps!!!

[PugMi16 0]

Sad to hear I'm not the first one

 

Ofcourse it helps, less thinking for me, i have ph1 so less work to do

[Jer309GTi 3]

I toyed with the idea of getting a GTI-6 engine and box to put in mine when it was engineless, but decided to keep with the Mi16 engine in the end. I'll be interested to hear how well suited the ratios are to the Mi engine in a 405 when you've got it sorted

[Guest badboyracer3500]

i heard somewhere that the chassis needed work cause off bigger box. a section needed cutting out and plating back up. also been told final drive same as Mi and the only differance is in 1st,2nd and maybe 3rd.

don't quote me on this as not 100% sure source was reliable.

[PugMi16 0]

i heard somewhere that the chassis needed work cause off bigger box. a section needed cutting out and plating back up. also been told final drive same as Mi and the only differance is in 1st,2nd and maybe 3rd.

don't quote me on this as not 100% sure source was reliable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The chassis will need some cuting you are sayin well forgot to write that too!!

 

The 1st and 2nd are longer than mi, 3rd is the same, next 3 gears are shorter!

[welshpug 1,622]

never heard that the chassis needed modifying in any way, only the ARB mounting.

 

this may be useful, MPH at a redline of 7250rpm in each gear (using 195 50 15) =

 

mi16/mi16.......38......60......86......114.....145.....0

gti6/gti6...........41......65.....85.......105.....127....152

 

so you were nearly correct! 6th is a little longer, which is a good thing.

 

MPH per 1000rpm (using 195 50 15) =

 

mi16/mi16.......5.2.....8.2.....11.9....15.7.....20.0.....0.0

gti6/gti6..........5.7......8.9....11.8....14.5......17.5.....21.0

 

Edited January 26, 2007 by WELSHPUG

[PugMi16 0]

BTW on my car at the moment, I'm pretty sure, isn't mi-s gearbox since my second gear goes up to 120kmh not sure how much mph is that but its more than 60mph, i think its from 205 GTi or something like that! So I'm thinking that with this gearbox car should go much much faster than at the moment!!

[JOHN89MI16 0]

Do you still get to use all 6 gears of the gti 6 gearbox if this was put into a phase 1 405 mi16? Also where would reverse be?

Also looking at the redline comparison figures my 405 mi16 does just over 90 mph in third gear on 195-50-15 tyres on a standard car. Is that what it should do?

Edited January 26, 2007 by JOHN89MI16

[PugMi16 0]

Yes I get all six speeds, I dont know where reverse is on gti-6 (i think pull up + sixth gear) i will know that when i install it

[welshpug 1,622]

yup, down and back, hence the need for a cable to stop you from slamming from 5th to reverse

[PugMi16 0]

yup, down and back, hence the need for a cable to stop you from slamming from 5th to reverse

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sorry can you explain this little better I'm from Croatia I understand English but not every word

[welshpug 1,622]

reverse is next to 6th

[PugMi16 0]

reverse is next to 6th

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes I understand that but is there any danger from hiting into reverse instead into 6?

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

haven't you seen the diagram on the gearknob-cap?

[PugMi16 0]

Yes I have today, I didn't know you sent it I allready drilled my gearknob and stuck it in Just hoping to start the work on monday since all 3 car elevators are busy at the moment!

Edited January 27, 2007 by PugMi16

[Guest scottcmb]

Yes I have today, I didn't know you sent it    I allready drilled my gearknob and stuck it in    Just hoping to start the work on monday since all 3 car elevators are busy at the moment!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

keep us posted with your progress...this will be quite interesting

[Jer309GTi 3]

Looking forward to seeing this done I guess the steering lock will be as normal, not like when you put the 6 speed box in a 205 and lose some steering lock?

[PugMi16 0]

Looking forward to seeing this done I guess the steering lock will be as normal, not like when you put the 6 speed box in a 205 and lose some steering lock?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess too, but i still don't know for sure will it fit without cuting chasey, if I cut it than probobly I'll have to move steering lock to prevent rubbing the wheel into the gearbox!

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Only minus point with the BE3/6 gearbox is that first gear is higher than the Mi16 box's first gear. (That disadvantage doesn't count with you though because it sounds like you've not got the low mi16 ratios anyway). Of course the GTI6 box makes up for this by having a closer 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th.

I wish the be3/6's 4.1 final drive could be replaced with the 4.4 final drive of the Mi16 because that would be perfect.

 

Regarding the steering lock being poor, I was going to say it oughta be no worse than on the 306 though the Mi16 wheels' are inset 10mm closer than the Cyclones of the 306.

Edited January 28, 2007 by KRISKARRERA

[petert1345402284 0]

I wish the be3/6's 4.1 final drive could be replaced with the 4.4 final drive of the Mi16 because that would be perfect.

 

That, plus all the other ginning around, is exactly why I see little point in putting a GTi6 box in an Mi16.

 

A better solution is to wreck a 205 GTi and make a custom box, using the 205 3rd/4th and either the 0.86:1 5th from the 205, or 0.81:1 5th from a diesel or Mi16x4.

 

Don't tell me that it's going to over rev. on the highway. With the 0.81 5th, it would only be 6.5% shorter, than the 0.76:1 5th. My Mi16x4 doesn't complain.

 

Have a look at what I'm building for my Mi16x4:

http://forum.405mi16.com/index.php?showtopic=255

 

I've since refined this, and I'm going to keep the 0.81 5th with the 4.75 diff. It's 6% shorter than the standard Mi16x4 setup.

Edited January 29, 2007 by petert

[Guest pugmt]

Has anybody done a gti 6 gearbox conversion on a 4bie, i know that the gear casing on the diff is differant and the crown wheel carrier is differant, but i think i know how to do it. Just interested to see if anyone could help if they had already done the conversion.

[PugMi16 0]

Well I'v done it but i Didnt post all the process because of my bad english don't know how to write many parts name! Lets just say it isn't easy as i thought it will be! It's just too big to fit, had to do some chasey modifications and had to pull whole engine to the other side of engine bay and still i get some wheel scratching on the gearbox on full right wheel turning, Iv got distancers that should do the job but i'm still searching for longer lugs!

 

Here are the vids before and after conversion

 

Standard geabox

 

Gti-6

[pug309twin40s 1]

whats wrong with your dials? needles seem to moved around alot?

[PugMi16 0]

The rpm one is working properly thats what metters The speedometer is nearly correct, but the one that shows fuel isnt good at all somethings wrong in fuel meassuring system