Bike Carb Conversion On A Hill Climbing Gti

[mtechmatt 2]

Hi chaps, thought I would share what we are up to at M-Tech...

 

Just in the process of installing R1 Bike carbs to a hill climb 205 GTI. Using Bogg Bros manifold and our new (still in development but workable.) Ignition management system.

The car made a 105bhp on the dyno on standard inlet and injection management etc, and I will post up pics and graphs as the work nears completion...

 

 

 

Has anyone carried out this sort of conversion before, and if so, what gains did they get? Its 1.9

 

Matt

Edited July 30, 2012 by mtechmatt

[welshpug 1,621]

I take it that's 105 at the wheels?

[mtechmatt 2]

At the fly, though it seems the owner has tried to fiddle with the MAF sensor, as it also runs incredibly rich. Definitely down on power, though it runs a 42s at Gurston down..

[welshpug 1,621]

crikey, 27 bhp down on my standard engine

 

hope you're going to sort his broken bonnet hinges too!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Never seen that one there, Only one I missed was May

 

But 105 is worse than a 1.6 (Unless a pre 86 model), Something badly wrong there but get a decent inlet, All the 16v ones I have seen have been pretty poor

[mtechmatt 2]

Never seen that one there, Only one I missed was May

 

But 105 is worse than a 1.6 (Unless a pre 86 model), Something badly wrong there but get a decent inlet, All the 16v ones I have seen have been pretty poor

 

No its a 90, it struggles to idle where the MAF has been played around with so much... The owner is Jason Barnes, has done a few events at gurston, I see you compete there also, he gets to 82 through the first trap, which is quite compettative I think. We will be at gurston next in the new trim on the 6th of Sept if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Carbs are all fitted today, alternator modified and cable linkage has been fabricated and fitted. Just in process of installing low pressure fuel pump and hopefully getting a new prototype ignition controller wired in tomorrow.

 

Good fun ahead!

 

Matt

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

If he's at 82 thru the first trap that's good, I'm only at 77 to 79 but doing low 39 run's, abit with 1250kg's behind me

My other 306 thou I'm keeping until next year to have ago at the overall championship

[mtechmatt 2]

After light balancing only and running stock ignition, 117bhp so far. The owner also now tells us he is unsure of the CC of the engine.... Any easy tell tells for the 1.6/1.9? Without nchecking engine numbers of course etc...

Matt

[rallyeash 155]

Sounds like it should be a 1.6, is the car a 1.9 or 1.6? Loads of 1.6's are about with alleged 1900 engines.

I'm local too, Devizes

[Anthony 1,000]

The owner also now tells us he is unsure of the CC of the engine.... Any easy tell tells for the 1.6/1.9? Without nchecking engine numbers of course etc...

 

Well, it's got 1.9 injectors (yellow) in the photo which suggests it is a 1.9

 

Other clues are that the engine code tag on the block above the alternator will be "D6B" for a 1.9 GTi engine, rather than "B6D" or "B6E" for a 1.6 GTi, and that the sump will have a spacer plate above it on a 1.9 whereas it won't have on a 1.6. Failing that, just poke a bit of welding rod of similar down a spark plug hole and roughly measure the stroke as both engines share the same 83mm bore (as do 1.8's for that matter) - 73mm stroke for a 1.6 and 88mm stroke for a 1.9

[mtechmatt 2]

Anthony, spot on, cheers for the advice on that one, I will have a look tomorrow and report my findings.

 

Matt

[mtechmatt 2]

Sounds like it should be a 1.6, is the car a 1.9 or 1.6? Loads of 1.6's are about with alleged 1900 engines.

I'm local too, Devizes

 

Indeed even the owner didnt seem sure when we asked today... Local, Ah be sure to pop in for a cuppa if passing, would be good to hear some other opinions on the project, especially if you're a 205 man yourself!

 

Matt

[mtechmatt 2]

The 205 just made 137bhp after some more tuning and ignition tweaking, which again, is a great result, though we are pusing it forwards, going for over 140 I hope

 

Matt

Edited August 3, 2012 by Anthony
Thread cleanup

[welshpug 1,621]

not bad, but still only a few more than my standard inlet

 

got any pictures?

[rallyeash 155]

not a bad result seeing as a standard 1900 is normally much less than the alleged 130hp.

[welshpug 1,621]

Only because the management is slightly tricky to most to get right, when std mine made book power easily, a couple of other tired examples at the same session made low 120's and a "fast road" concourse 205 made 10 more bhp but 5lbft less than mine!!

[Anthony 1,000]

Project thread cleaned up and all the bickering relating to a completely different car removed

 

Back on topic:

 

It will be interesting to see how much of an improvement you get with the bike carbs and mapped ignition over the standard inlet, injection and clockwork dizzy on an otherwise standardish 8v - just a shame that you didn't get the original setup running as it should before hand to make for a proper comparison between the two.

[mtechmatt 2]

Anthony, thanks for that.

 

Here are some more p[ics. yes a baseline would of been nice, but then this, if treated as a tuning excercise, the car was 105bhp and is now... etc. However you're right, it would of been nice to have a truly heatly GTI to start with, know anyonw after a similar conversion??

 

I will also be adding photos and results on our facebook page as its alot easier than using Flikr!

http://www.facebook.com/mtechautomotiveltd

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the carbs all fitted up, and throttle cable fitted...

 

 

Coil pack bracket being made and wiring underway...

 

 

More results and dyno plots to come once we have the NODIZ fitted

 

Matt

Edited August 5, 2012 by mtechmatt

[welshpug 1,621]

why not just use standard 8 valve XU coilpack thermostat housing coilpack and leads? stock bits off the shelf.

[mtechmatt 2]

We are using our new NODIZ prototype which I have only ever tested with Ford coilpacks, I would need to scope dwell requirements/resitancaes etc of the pug coil.... not something I want to risk on a car racing so soon But good idea though for a future development...

 

Matt

[jbarnes 1]

Hi Guys

 

Very new to this forum "thing", not a big fan to be honest but obviously have an interest in the car mentioned cos its mine. Car was donated to me by a client who I have built historic racing single seaters for (budgets in excess of £250,000.00 to £600,000.00)(along with the help of Simon who now works for Matt - thanks Matt!) It was fresh out of storage having been stood for 10yrs plus, I ripped the interior out ragged it on a couple of mickey mouse track days (without even checking the engine oil - secretly wanting to blow it up to be honest so I could build the race engine I had in mind) got bored of that and thought I'd go hillclimbing or something??

 

Matt has provided a rolling road service to me on many of the projects completed here so having chatted with him and his new technology we decided to give it a whirl, I have to say that I was shocked and disappointed that it only made 105 bhp and was more concerned about engine internals being a 120,000 mile car. When Matt called me I went down to see the session and was thrilled to see 137 in such as short period of work - on a standard and dogged dizzy to which I had doubted from the start.

 

Great work Matt, cant wait to see what the NODIZ produces on top of that, maybe another 5-6 given the state of the dizzy, then I should change the plugs eh? If its not 150 bhp + I'm not paying you lol. Look forward to the off season when the work really starts with this little Pug.

 

Looking forward to Wiscombe 5 Clubs Hillclimb Sept 1st and back to Gurston Sept 9th to see what it can do and the efforts Matt and his team have put into the project will be rewarded by the grin on my face...Brake horespower sells engines, torque wins races...

 

Great job again guys as always, happy to recommend to anyone

[welshpug 1,621]

wtf is NOIDZ?!

 

regarding the dizzy, you'd potentially gain a decent amount of torque and power, on top of better drivability by getting H&H ignition solut9ions to rebuild and re-curve to suit the carbs and cam if applicable, or ditch the lot and fit mappable ignition, standard plugs should be fine given its a pretty standard engine.

[mtechmatt 2]

Welsh,

 

Its our new standalone ignition controller, akin to megajolt though it has the coil drivers built in, as well a host of other features, all designed in house (I had the pleasure of writing (and STILL writing) the firmware that it runs on!)

 

Jason,

 

Cheers for the feedback, looking forward to the end results as well

 

Matt

[mtechmatt 2]

Well guys the results are in...

 

 

Still need to add some features like Launch Control to the NODIZ unit but hoping to have that sorted soon

[kyepan 291]

Nice flat torque curve well done!