Bad Words About 309 Beams

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I have noticed a lot of bad press for 309 rear beams fitted to 205's.

 

I've been doing a bit of digging as I have 101 options to concider.

 

I'm currently set on fitting 309 GTi lower arms and shafts. I know of a 309 beam going spare and as I would be needing to rebuild a beam anyway I was leaning towards going for a 309 rear to match the front track and gain thicker bars as a bonus.

 

Now I understand this comes with opinions on whether it is the right thing to do, so I am interested to hear peoples views.

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

*Opens can of worms*

 

Im not sure this topic is going to be particuarly useful to you as your going to get the purists saying "no no just get bigger bars for a 205 beam, much better bla bla". In contrast, theres people like myself who really like the full 309 setup, nice cheap upgrade and i much prefer the stance with the increased track width. So like you say opinion is very much divided.

 

If youve got a 309 beam kicking about then i would personally use it, but it is very much a personal preference kind of thing. The main reason people started using a 309 beam is due to the slight increase in spring rate as uprated 205 torsion bars were bloody expensive. These days thats not so much of an issue with a few places doing them for reasonable money.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Do you have a pic handy of yours with the wider track James?

 

Did you have to trim the arch trims?

 

It's only because as you say there is one handy that I am considering it.

 

From the rough prices I have noticed for thicker 205 TBs, It's made me have a rethink.

[welshpug 1,626]

just buy a 309

 

I worked the difference in spring rate as 94 to 113 lb/in.

 

I'm running 21's which should be around 143 lb/in.

Edited July 2, 2012 by welshpug

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I'm attached to my car now so don't want to go down that road Mei

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

See if I could incorporate my Xsara VTS bars I'd retain the 205 beam I think. I know people shorten the VTS ARB to fit a 205, but is that possible with torsion bars?

 

It's all food for thought.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Here's my OPINION (I have however owned/own 205s with both beams on in various guises)

 

On a relatively standard car I think 309 beams spoil the driving experience. they feel 'dead' at the back end and understeery, too safe somehow.

Im no purist but I don't like the look of the extra width either, each to there own though.

 

An uprated 205 beam is a much better plan and for a fast road car I'd be looking at copying the skip brown set-up.

 

But don't forget.... Opinions are like arseholes and you'll never have your own untill you've tried it. If you fit the 309 beam and don't like it you can soon sell it on and probably make a profit, I think the going rate for a 309 beam is getting on for £700 nowadays

 

 

[welshpug 1,626]

I remember miles saying you can get 8" wheels on the back of a 205 with a 205 beam, you can't with a 309 beam

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Opinions are like arseholes and you'll never have your own untill you've tried it.

I hear you like to try arseholes....

 

I would agree that a 309 beam is less progressive than a 205 and more snappy when it goes, however does feel more planted. A 309 beam can restrict your wheel / tyre choice as you will most likely get some arch catching. If you have one in decent condition then it is an easy upgrade, though a standard beam with an uprated ARB is good fun on roundabouts and pretty cost effective now.

[boldy205 74]

My opinion is, go for the 309 item, i agree it makes the rear more stable, very much so,maybe a little 'dead' feeling, but can still be provoked into oversteer, and overall, on track, quicker.

 

Matt

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Heres a very old pic but you get the idea, was lowered roughly 35mm. Didnt have to trim the arches, cant say i noticed any understeer either, although this was combined with the 309 front, so a bit more camber also.

 

Edited July 2, 2012 by j_turnell

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

 

I hear you like to try arseholes....

 

 

Only cathy's

[welshpug 1,626]

its not unfortunately, as the splines are a fair bit larger diameter than the bar.

 

The only reason a 306 arb can be used is that there's enough material to re-spline for a 205 end plate, or that they get welded into place on one end and a 306 end plate used on the other end, as per 206's.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Hmm. I will try and find more info on 205 bar options. I've noticed Anthony's name mentioned in regards to these so will see what he says.

 

I suppose I was hoping that a standard rebuilt 309 beam would be a sufficient addition to be combined with 225lb springs.

 

Part of me also wonders if 309 front bits are worthwhile adding now or seeing how I get on without. I see things banded around on the forums and think Ooo I want to go down that route without probably needing to. Found myself looking for an electric PAS pump the other day!

[welshpug 1,626]

309 beam wont match 225 lb springs IMO/IME, 185's match 21mm 205 bars nicely though.

Edited July 2, 2012 by welshpug

[jord294 87]

 

If you wanted to keep the 309 beam, use the 21.3mm partner torsion bars and then upgrade your arb

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

309 beam wont match 225 lb springs IMO/IME, 185's match 21mm 205 bars nicely though.

 

I have no idea what formula people base it on, but does that suggest that with a standard 205 beam - people with coilovers should really only be running 150lb springs?

 

Really need to find out what poundage my clio coilovers are. I'd like them to be a touch stiffer than those. So if I see what they are, perhaps go a tad firmer and then make a rear to suit.

 

Otherwise I'm going to be making two guesses and hoping for the best.

[SurGie 54]

From what i've read, having a wider track gives the car more stability, especially round corners. Take a look at Formula one cars, they are as wide as fook.

Edited July 3, 2012 by SurGie

[Spiky 37]

mine has a 309 beam, with 24mm ARB, and std TB

 

with et15 wheels and r888's or a048s (current setup) there is absolutly no room left between tyre and arch

 

 

but since i've had the beam, i have no or limited (very) lift off over steer

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

at motorway speeds my car felt much more stable with a wider back end

[SurGie 54]

As standard the 205 GTi has a wider track at the front compared to the back, this could be the reason why some feel it looses the original 205 driving experience. Maybe the wide front track gives the 205 its handling characteristics.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Like a 106

My diesel 205 handles much better than the Gti, which has a 205 beam vs 309

[Cameron 16]

If the 309 beam is "available" at a good price, why not buy it, rebuild it, then sell it on? You could then use the money to build a 205 beam with thicker TB's and ARB, without being limited on tyre choice and ride height.

[Baz 421]

Look at any FWD touring/racing saloon/hatches etc. always front wider than the rear.

[welshpug 1,626]

106's are the same track up front as a 205, and 40mm NARROWER at the rear.