Xsara Vts Rack Steering Column

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

A few points I have discovered

• The standard 306 or Xsara lower column is too long to suit the 205 and too large diameter to fit nicely through the bulkhead grommet.
  
• The standard NON PAS 205 square drive column has the lowest section too long to suit the non power rack and so the UJ ends up too far away from the rack
  
• If such a thing exists, I am sure a 205 PAS column is ideal
  

HOWEVER

 

All is not lost, as with a little care, you can dismantle the short lowest section off the 306 or Xsara column, and then fit it to your 205 upper half of the lower column.

 

I've done this today, worked a treat, used a 205 NON PAS square column, and the Xsara column. No pics I am afraid.

[Anthony 1,000]

The standard NON PAS 205 square drive column has the lowest section too long to suit the non power rack and so the UJ ends up too far away from the rack

A standard 205 square drive non-PAS UJ is working fine on my 205 with a VTS Phase 1 PAS rack on it - just bolted straight together and works perfectly.

[kyepan 291]

Same here

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

I don't see how, the lower half of it is too long.

[dcc 855]

Is there a difference in length of the splined drive for the rack then? Maybe you could 'cut it down' so to speak?

[camgti 56]

Just wondering if there was any progress with this thread. Ive been having a look around and just trying to work a few things out. Here in Australia we only got the 3.8 non pas rack and the 3.2 PAS rack. Am I right in guessing that there is a 3.2 NON PAS rack?

Ive got a ph2 VTS rack that I need to fit to my 205 and I have the 3.8 non pas column and the 3.2 column available to modify. Just wondering which i should proceed with. I dont think either will fit. DO I have to get the lower section of the VTS it came from and make it fit the upper section of the 205 column?

This is the VTS rack I have

[Anthony 1,000]

There is no 3.2 turn non-PAS rack, at least not for a 205/309 - what people tend to do is remove the hydraulic ram and pipes from a 3.2 turn PAS rack to turn it into a non-PAS 3.2 turn rack. Usually people refer to these as a de-PAS rack.

 

There's two variants of the non-PAS rack - one with a square drive and one with a spline drive.

 

On my car I'm just using a non-PAS square drive lower column directly on the VTS rack with no modification.

 

 

Unfortunately, I don't appear to have a clear picture of it fitted on the car in the build pictures, which is annoying given that I seemingly photographed everything else! If no one else comes up with one in the meantime, I'll try and get one next time I'm working on the car.

 

This approach hasn't worked for Tom for reasons I'm not sure of, but certainly has for me, Justin (Kyepan) and several others I can think of. I've done over 3000 miles since fitting mine (using PAS), and I believe that Justin has done considerably more than that seeing as he fitted his a year or so before me (not using PAS, so effectively a 2.4 turn quickrack).

Edited May 2, 2012 by Anthony

[camgti 56]

So I guess my best option is to get the lower part of the Xsara rack and join it to my 205 column?

 

Will get onto that right away if thats the go.

 

I would also like to keep it Non PAS for now as Im going to fir PAS once the big motor goes in with the Trans x. Can anyone shed some light on the required grubs o go into the holes?

 

Cam

[welshpug 1,626]

if its a phase2 xsara you need the original pipes and modify them to suit, though I think there's not much modding needed, especially if you use the xsara rez.

[camgti 56]

I have all the Pipes for the PAS setup down the line.

 

Just trying to figure out what I need to fit it. Looks like I need the lover section of the Xsara column to join to the 205 column.

 

Thanks Welsh

 

Cam

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Just wondered if anyone has since thought of a logical reason why this implication may have arisen for Tom?

 

I need to source a 205 square drive lower column and don't want to insist specificaly on a PAS or Non PAS column if either are the same and will do the job.

 

I think I would be playing safe going for a non PAS square drive as this is proven numerous times but as sods law will return me a PAS one I wonder if it would be worth trying. I'm in that position of colllecting 500 bits and then intending to fit in a short space of time so I don't want to risk being under the car of a weekend to find a PAS one is a different lengh perhaps.

 

On that note, does anyone have both PAS and non PAS to make a comparison or have the length of a non PAS so I can use that as a safety measure? (see what I did there?)

 

Annoyingly I actually had one on a rack but left it on when I got rid :lol

[Anthony 1,000]

I'm still not convinced that there is such a thing as a 205/309 square drive PAS lower column.

 

All I can say is that on my car, and other peoples cars that I personally know that have done the conversion, have all used a 205/309 square drive non-PAS lower column and it has fit and worked perfectly. I can't say why it didn't work for Tom however - it is longer, but there's sufficient spare take up on the upper column to accommodate that..

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I'd be interested to see a 205 one against a 306 and Xsara one. I've a GTi6 one which ive put alongside the VTS one and there's a slight difference in length between the 2 of those.

[Anthony 1,000]

306/Xsara are quite a bit longer than a 205 one, and there's no way that one of those will fit without being cut and modified.

 

I have them both (205 and a 306/Xsara) in the garage so could get you a side by side picture if needs be.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Don't go out out of your way to put them side by side - but I'd be curious to see purely out of interest.

[welshpug 1,626]

I'm guessing that if you have the gti type square drive lower column that it can be slid up into the bulkhead grommet and engage the splined shaft deeper into the upper column's clamp, possibly pushing the wheel up as well (the upper column is located height wise by the clamp onto the lower column not the bearings)

 

the non GTi type has a bulky bush affair just above the lower joint which may cause issues with the grommet at least.

 

here's the 205 pas and non pas splined lower columns side by side, as you can see its a fair difference and nearly all in the length of the lower section.

 

 

 

and this doesn't quite show it but you can see the difference the valve housing on the pinion makes.

 

Edited January 8, 2013 by welshpug

[Anthony 1,000]

I'm guessing that if you have the gti type square drive lower column that it can be slid up into the bulkhead grommet and engage the splined shaft deeper into the upper column's clamp, possibly pushing the wheel up as well (the upper column is located height wise by the clamp onto the lower column not the bearings)

Doesn't need to slide in so far that you're pushing the wheel / upper column into the car - there was probably ~5mm spare on mine from memory.

[brian j 31]

All is not lost, as with a little care, you can dismantle the short lowest section off the 306 or Xsara column, and then fit it to your 205 upper half of the lower column.I've done this today, worked a treat, used a 205 NON PAS square column, and the Xsara column. No pics I am afraid.

Any particular tips on doing this, or any fancy tools needed? I like this plan, but my skills and workshop are a lot less great than yours. :-)

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

If you look carefully at the joint you can see a small staked area that holds the bearings into the yoke. A bit of careful grinding away of this staked area and you can then dismantle the bearings from the joint.

The harder part is getting the bearings to stay put on reassembly. I tried to replicate the staking idea with a centre pop but it didn't really work, so instead I tacked the bearings into place with the MIG welder.

[brian j 31]

Thanks Tom,

 

I had figured out the staking, but wasn't sure if there was anything interesting underneath the metal cap.

 

I will give it a go and ask my friendly local garage to pop some tacks on to hold them back in, in exchange for a few pints.

[brian j 31]

I can confirm it is easy to do.

 

I now have a hybrid Lower steering shaft from the top half of my Pas one and the lower half of the Xsara one. (I might not have bothered but the 'good' used non-pas one I bought on Ebay turned out to be seized solid...)

 

Thanks Tom

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

You are very welcome, glad you got it sorted.

[Plumbob 66 1 Cars]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I've read several on the subject and I'm still a bit confused. I've got a Phase 2 GTI with no PAS. I've recently bought a Phase 1 Xsara VTS rack and can confirm its 2.4 turns lock to lock and has a square drive. I've fitted it to the car and did eventually manage to get the lower UJ connected but I had to undo the four bolts that hold the upper column and pull the whole lot towards me (into the car). Also had to loosen the pinch bolt for the lower column and push that up as far as I could, then managed to get it connected to the rack but still had to push the whole lot up (into the car) so now the back of the steering wheel is maybe 5mm away from the front bearing of the column. Is this really right or should I be seeking out a PAS square drive lower UJ? It works how it is right now but I feel its a bit "wrong".

 

Thanks in advance

[welshpug 1,626]

A square drive pas 205 column does not exist.

 

there should be a gap between the back of the wheel and the top bearing, it would bind if it was touching.

[Plumbob 66 1 Cars]

Ah I was hoping you'd reply! Some people seem to think they do exist which is what confused me. So the gap is fine then? If so then all is good!