4 Point Harness Mounting

[Karl 15 1 Cars]

hi maybe a stupid question but if you dont know you ask! just wondering if it is safe to mount my 4 point harnesses to the rear seatbelt mountings aswell as the rear ones or will this be unsafe as i wish to still use the rear seats in conjunction to my harnesses if not has anyone got any sugestions on how to mount these lol thanks

[omega 82]

you really shouldnt use the rear seat belt mounting holes as the angle is wrong.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Hope this helps

 

[Karl 15 1 Cars]

could you sugest where then please

you really shouldnt use the rear seat belt mounting holes as the angle is wrong.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

I believe the angle will be ok.

[Karl 15 1 Cars]

this should help aa little thanks

Hope this helps

 

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Have I read this right, you want to have harnesses to your front seats and still be able to carry passengers in the back?

 

Sorry but this is a non starter.

 

Its either back seat passengers and 3 point normal belts, or harnesses and no back seat passengers.

[Cameron 16]

+1.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You want to be safe? If so then I;d use something else other than the std point, They really are not upto anything major, Just have a look at the metal around there, quite a thin pressing and now normally surface rust on quite allot of cars,

[Cameron 16]

The entire bodyshell is a thin pressing!

 

The rear seatbelt anchor points have load spreading plates, I don't see how it's any less safe than drilling holes somewhere else.

[welshpug 1,623]

id go a step further and say that they should not be used with std seats and definitely without a cage, i remember a story of a pscuk member rolling around in the back of his stripped out 205 at castle combe after the seat mountings broke and he came out of the harmesses, he was lucky not to hit anything afaik!

 

another thing regarding harness and no cage is that if the car rolls the roof can come down and you will not be able to move due to the harness, likelyhood of breaking your neck is high

[Karl 15 1 Cars]

thanks guys i have bucket seats aswell tho what recomendations do you have i do need to keep the backseats usable buti have already bought the 4 point harnessess still v unsure on what to do also i dont plan on driving the streets like a manianc to the point of rollin my precious 205 gti6

 

id go a step further and say that they should not be used with std seats and definitely without a cage, i remember a story of a pscuk member rolling around in the back of his stripped out 205 at castle combe after the seat mountings broke and he came out of the harmesses, he was lucky not to hit anything afaik!

 

another thing regarding harness and no cage is that if the car rolls the roof can come down and you will not be able to move due to the harness, likelyhood of breaking your neck is high

[Karl 15 1 Cars]

yes you have read this right. so u think this is a no go and i should use 3 points in stead

Have I read this right, you want to have harnesses to your front seats and still be able to carry passengers in the back?

 

Sorry but this is a non starter.

 

Its either back seat passengers and 3 point normal belts, or harnesses and no back seat passengers.

[welshpug 1,623]

yup

[Cameron 16]

I don't want to launch an attack on you or anything, but why are you doing this? Keeping the back seats but having front buckets and harnesses I mean.. is it a daily driver?

[MiniGibbo 142]

Don't fit harnesses at the wrong angles ie into rear belt holes

Don't fit harnesses if you have rear seats

Don't use harnesses with reclining seats

Don't use harnesses without a cage

 

...

Edited November 16, 2011 by MiniGibbo

[Baz 421]

Guys, aren't we getting a little OTT here? For those that have no idea, everything said here is plausible and i agree, but... nobody wants to advise on something that may be considered un-safe but lets be realistic, at the end of the day we all care so much about safety, we choose to drive 25yo tin cans made out of old coke cans. People are going to do what they want whether or not you would.

 

To the same degree I bet the majority mount your seats (standard or otherwise) on the crappy standard mounts without a second thought for them! I beg of you, lift the carpet back to check the condition of them. Seriously. Because ultimately THIS is what we're all afraid of and you'll probably find the key reason to most of these scare stories. Some of them even state as much!

 

 

Sit down, take a deep breath. My blue 205;

 

ALL Standard seats bar Driver's; FIA (fixed back)Sparco Rev bucket seat & TRS 6pt Harness.

 

Harness is affixed using the standard belt mounting points, RHS lap belt is in the driver's side lower belt rail fixing, LHS lap belt on the exhaust tunnel - hole drilled and proper harness eyebolt & spreader plate used.

Shoulder straps are affixed in the lower rear seat belt fixing holes, of which the angle is fine. RHS one is in the lower most-RHS hole on the inner rear quarter, the LHS one is in one of the centre holes for the rear seat belt buckles(check your eyebolts have long enough thread if you plan to do this, especially if you're leaving the std belts fitted too).

 

Angle is fine by then, basically when sat and in place, you want the belts to be on or pulling your shoulders, NOT the seat, this is what the guidelines aim at. All my standard belts remain in position and can be used if needs be.

 

It is NOT caged either.

 

What's massively unsafe about it please, for what legitimate realistic reason... I'm clearly not allowed to compete in motorsport with 4 passengers and i don't make a habit of carrying more than 2 on the road tbh, but if i have to, i can.

 

On the road i don't do up my shoulder belts of the harness as tight as possible as i would when competing, so i'm not held upright in the seat, but that's neither here nor there tbh. I also mount my bucket seats a hell of alot better than most do in 205's, my neck is basically almost in line with the window bottom and i don't like to lick the dash either, of course this is also luck because of my long-limbed stature, so it's tilted a fair way too, not only aiding in the belt 'angle' thing but so it's alot lower & thus further from the roof so even if i was in a nasty roll it'd have to almost completely squash the roof & pillars down to the window line to make me more than just 'uncomfortable'. 205's are not as weak as you think, how many of you have seen one after a generic roll, or even squashed one on purpose in some way? I have, the roof itself is weak, but the roof WITH pillars is not, the whole roof rarely squashes right down including the pillars. I'm not saying i'm not more at risk, but why do we all leave our beds if we live by 'what if?'

 

I also periodically check the condition of all the mounting points, (as do scrutineers and MOT testers) including & especially the seat mounting points under the carpet because i'm a bit paranoid about them because i'm well aware of how crap they are and how structurally ruined they can be by now, probably more so than most for multiple reasons.

 

Basically most people have common sense when it comes to stuff like this, so if you have to go to the extent of asking, the answer is usually 'no', but this one's a grey area IMO and i'd have to agree with the above seeing as i'm assuming you have reclining seats perhaps without proper harness holes - this does makes a difference, i don't think harnesses should ever be used without seats that can accept & retain them.

 

I won't advise you to do what you're suggesting, instead i'd ask you to consider changing the seats/harness for more suitable/capable/proven items & consider what the seat, harnesses and therefore you may do in an accident, any scenario, and then be aware of that and make your choice, as ultimately that's what you're going to do anyway, i'd just prefer that you were educated in your options.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Baz

[Rich_p 23]

I've always read the rear belt points should not be used and have avoided doing so on mine.

 

I have however seen a few racing pugs that have done this and they have passed scruiteneering which suprised me.

[Leon 24]

I don't want to launch an attack on you or anything, but why are you doing this? Keeping the back seats but having front buckets and harnesses I mean.. is it a daily driver?

 

 

Don't fit harnesses at the wrong angles ie into rear belt holesDon't fit harnesses if you have rear seatsDon't use harnesses with reclining seatsDon't use harnesses without a cage...

 

MSA Road Rally regulations state that the rear seats must be retained. Harnesses are permitted with or without a cage and with or without a bucket seat.

 

Using the rear seatbelt mounts leaves the straps at approx 45 degrees and therefore inside the recommended range.

[Cameron 16]

MSA Road Rally regulations state that the rear seats must be retained. Harnesses are permitted with or without a cage and with or without a bucket seat.

 

Using the rear seatbelt mounts leaves the straps at approx 45 degrees and therefore inside the recommended range.

 

Fair enough!

[Leon 24]

Fair enough!

That was my reason for running them with rear seats anyway, I can't comment for the OP

[matt.f 16]

Yeah most people put the seat backrest flat for road rallycars,can be done both ways though to use belts.

Could weld harness bars onto your cage if you havnt got them.

[Baz 421]

 

Could weld harness bars onto your cage if you havnt got them.

 

Bear in mind this may void the cage's homologation though.

[Batfink 201]

we are ok letting our rear passengers use the standard seatbelt mounting points. What makes the driver so special?

[Cameron 16]

Rear seats with a roll cage? Does that even work?