Which Narrowband

[feb 47]

I have done a search but nothing mentions about them, most people seem to be using wideband sensors.

 

I am looking for a narrowband sensor to optimise economy being able to run closed loop.

 

Which one do you recommend that is compatible with an Emerald K3?

 

Alternatively, which wideband one (so that I could have the possibility to play with mapping myself in the future) would do the same job?

 

Is an Innovate LC1 OK? There has been quite a few people that have had problems with them.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 8, 2011 by feb

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

If your going to do an tunning with it your need a wideband. I've got an innovate wideband controller on my car, and havent had any problems and its been on there for quite a few years now.

 

I would guess not 100% on this but you could use any narrowband sensor to get a feeling to too lean or too rich. A 4 wire from say a 106, would do you.

 

Mad.

[feb 47]

I am aware of this but if I fitted a wideband would it work OK for closed loop?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

A narrowband is of little or no use to us, all it will do is tell you that you are either richer or leaner than 14.7 : 1 AFR, not by how much, and it won't react quickly enough to be any use whilst tuning either.

 

A wideband is what you want. I use the AEM kit as it is a standalone thing all built into a gauge. I've fitted 4 of them now to different things and had no problem.

[petert 554]

I don't agree with what Tom says, but at the price you can buy a wideband for now what's the difference?

 

http://www.oxygensensor.net/widebandsensors.php

 

Buy the 17014, you can always add the Innovate controller, gauge etc., later if desired - http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

[feb 47]

Thanks for the link Peter, $48 is a very good price.

 

What I didn't understand is how you calibrate the O2 sensor when do you don't have a XD1? http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/LC-101/sniffer_content.html

 

It mentions: "If you are not using the XD1 to calibrate and monitor the LC1 you can connect the black calibration to the ground wire via a push button switch for free air calibration and you could use a LED for checking the status of the LC1"

 

What does "using a LED for checking the status of the LC1" mean? Is it just a visual indication when you are performing calibration?

 

Also what about the heater calibration, he mentions this needs to be done once when you install it but how is it done without the parafernalia shown in the video above?

Edited April 10, 2011 by feb

[petert 554]

Thanks for the link Peter, $48 is a very good price.

 

What I didn't understand is how you calibrate the O2 sensor when do you don't have a XD1? http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/LC-101/sniffer_content.html

 

It mentions: "If you are not using the XD1 to calibrate and monitor the LC1 you can connect the black calibration to the ground wire via a push button switch for free air calibration and you could use a LED for checking the status of the LC1"

 

What does "using a LED for checking the status of the LC1" mean? Is it just a visual indication when you are performing calibration?

 

Also what about the heater calibration, he mentions this needs to be done once when you install it but how is it done without the parafernalia shown in the video above?

 

You're reading about how to calibrate the controller/display for the LC1. The LC1 has both 0-5V and 0-1V outputs and can be calibrated to tune various fuels. I was assuming you were going to connect the sensor directly into your ECU and it would do any conversion necessary.

 

Certainly if you use a narrowband sensor, such as the NTK 21002, it's 0-1V output will be plug and play, but you won't be able to tune richer mixtures. After you've had the car mapped however, that's all you need if your ECU has closed loop capability. I certainly don't leave my wideband sensor and controller in the car.

[feb 47]

You're reading about how to calibrate the controller/display for the LC1. The LC1 has both 0-5V and 0-1V outputs and can be calibrated to tune various fuels. I was assuming you were going to connect the sensor directly into your ECU and it would do any conversion necessary.

 

Certainly if you use a narrowband sensor, such as the NTK 21002, it's 0-1V output will be plug and play, but you won't be able to tune richer mixtures. After you've had the car mapped however, that's all you need if your ECU has closed loop capability. I certainly don't leave my wideband sensor and controller in the car.

 

Yes, I would like to have the sensor connected into the K3 for closed loop and in the future I might install a controller and display if I fancy tuning for another fuel.

 

Thanks for clarifying Peter.

 

Where can I get hold of the bung to fit it? As I understand the ones from oxygensensor.net are just the sensors without it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by feb

[feb 47]

It seems that the LC1 is now supplied with the Bosch sensor 3769.

 

Will this be OK?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovate-LC-1-Wideband-Controller-Bosch-sensor-PN-3769-/120708956543?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c1ad0817f

[petert 554]

That will be fine, but more than likely you'll need the LC1 as well. I'm not familiar with your ECU but I doubt it has the ability to accept a wideband sensor directly. Whereas you can connect a $30 narrow band sensor directly. If you intend tuning the car yourself, then go the extra expense of the LC1+wideband. Otherwise, let someone tune it and connect a cheap narrow band sensor for everyday use.

[Spiky 37]

i have a wideband, think it's the lc1 with display

 

so the gauges has a wideband reading, but the lc1 controller also outputs at the same time a narrowband that you can connect to you emerald

 

so you can have your cake and eat it

[welshpug 1,626]

I've got an AEM that does the same too

 

Bit OTT really as there's no need for it once the mapping is completed and you plan to use a Narrowband, the ecu will still know if its running lean or rich just not by how much.

Edited April 15, 2011 by welshpug

[feb 47]

Thanks guys, I ordered this in the end http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php the controller is "embedded" in the display and it is cheaper than the LC1 wideband display combo.

Edited April 15, 2011 by feb

[Spiky 37]

does it also output narrow and wide at the same time?

[Spiky 37]

it does, cool

[petert 554]

it does, cool

 

Not for me thanks. It means you need to have the bling readout in the car all the time. I guess you could hide it in the glovebox. I'd buy it for tuning purposes only, then fit a narrow band.

[feb 47]

I am not a fan of Christmas tree gauges either but I am sure it can be fitted in a discreet location.

 

Why not use it all the time for closed loop control with partial throttle e.g. when cruising?