[car_overhaul] Project Jalopy

[feb 47]

I remember years ago maybe at PTS in Luton where the PSC had a RR day, I'm sure Feb's can then was reading low then and I'm with you that getting that power on std injection isn't that realistic

 

I was disappointed to be honest and expected more especially since Richard's "standard" (or to put it better "unknown" spec engine) made almost the same power as mine.

I can't remember what it made at PTS in Luton(135-140 IIRC?), it is in Anthony's other thread I believe (Roadspeed revival) but later on Emerald's RR the same engine made 145bhp at the fly with a GrpN system and it can't be the GrpN that made the difference IMHO.

 

The engine bay looks very clean and tidy

Edited February 11, 2012 by feb

[Xerow 3 1 Cars]

 

You can also see the Group N rear engine mount that I've fitted.

 

Next my attentions turns to the auxilery belt and working out a way to routing and tensioning the belt, as with the aircon pump removed the existing setup is no good at all. Given that I want to retain the PAS pump, what I should logically do is buy a "Rallye" tensioner setup (it's not unique to the 306 Rallye despite the impression the GTi-6 forum gives, but it is fairly scarce as most 2.0 16v engines had aircon as standard) which comprises of a different tensioner, idler and belt, and a handful of bolts for mounting and tensioning it.

 

The problem is that my (distant) Scottish ancestry comes to the fore at this point and finds the idea of paying over £100 just to tension the auxiliary belt a little hard to justify, particularly when whilst not doing it on a shoestring, I am trying to complete the build on a comparitively modest budget. Making use of parts that I already had laying around and which are very common and cheap to replace, I came up with the following mock-up

 

 

Very simple setup, re-using the idler from the existing setup, and then using an old cambelt tensioner mounted in a pre-existing threaded hole to tension the belt as people have successfully done on non-PAS/AC GTi-6 installs previously. Certainly I can't see any obvious reason why it won't work once I've sourced the appropriate length belt and fitted a decent tensioner that hadn't been left outside in the scrap pile for weeks - the tensioner should be easily accessible from the drivers side front wheelarch, there's plenty of belt wrapped around the pulleys, and the belt is away from anything that it could catch on or snag. And the best bit is that other than the cost of the replacement belt, it's basically free providing that you're using an earlier engine with a 136 tooth cambelt setup.

 

The only slight problem is that because of the design of the cambelt cover, you won't be able to use a full 6-rib belt as it will foul against the raised part of the cover - however, given that it is no longer driving the aircon pump and has more belt on the various pulleys (thus reducing the risk of slippage) compared to standard, I really can't see any problem using a 5 rib belt for the job - hell, the standard 205 PAS setup uses a 4 rib belt and that works just fine. The picture above is the 6 rib belt overhanging by one rib, so it's effectively a 5 rib belt.

 

 

As you have probably guessed from the photos, there's been a lot of cleaning and making the engine presentable and ready for dropping into the 205 along with the fitting of parts mentioned above - it's taken a fair amount of elbow grease, but it's come out very well I'd say with it gleaming and would probably pass for a brand new engine. OK, so I cheated and painted the block itself, but all the alloy has been cleaned up and is pretty much spotless, the whole engine could pass for nearly-new.

 

Utterly futile of course given that it's going into the harsh, dirty environment that is a 205 engine bay...

 

Hello,

 

I'm french and i do actually a gti-6 conversion on my 205.

 

I like your idea of ​​the tension pulley for the belt attachment is very good. I was wondering if you could give me the reference belt that you used in the end?

 

thank you

Edited February 19, 2012 by Xerow

[Anthony 1,000]

I haven't actually fitted the final belt yet, but j_turnell on here did the same as me and found that a 5PK1180 belt was the correct length

[Xerow 3 1 Cars]

Thanks for your answer, i'm going to test That Soon.

 

I Will présent my gti when i'll finish m'y gti6 convertion

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

In regards to itchy hands using the wrap. When you next do it, which I'm sure you won't! Soak your hands in water as hot as you can take it. It allows the pores to open up and the barbs come out nicely. I get it all the time working with fibre glass panels...Good to see that bung got put to good use. I made my next one .10mm bigger which meant it pressed in with out the use of the seal, its not coming out in a hurry

[Josh_Quant 27]

I was just wondering when you got the gti6 bung??

 

i search to try and find them but had no luck finding them for sale lol

 

thanks Josh

[Anthony 1,000]

They weren't formally listed for sale, that's why you can't find them

 

Drop Cheesegrater (Tom - posted immediately above you!) a PM and see if he has any left as he made a few for himself and a few of his friends, and I bribed him with ale to make another for me while he was there.

 

Failing that, there is periodically people selling them over on the 306 GTi-6 forum.

[Josh_Quant 27]

ha ha i didn't even see him there. i will drop him a PM

 

I like your bribe

 

Thanks for the help

[Xerow 3 1 Cars]

Hello,

 

Yesterday, i try to put the 5pk1180 belt but it Was n'ont well. Missing one or two centimeters to be ok.

 

I Will test an other belt and will give you the link that goes well

[Anthony 1,000]

A month on from my last update, the 205 is running well and frankly I'm over the moon with it.

 

I didn't use it a huge amount over the winter months, but now that spring is very much upon us I've pressed it into use as my daily driver and it is proving just as capable of mile munching as it is at carving up a deserted twisty B-road, exactly as I had wanted. Sure, it's not quite as quiet, comfortable or economical as my 306 HDi, but it is so much more enjoyable and it feels like something special in amongst the nose to tail modern bland non-descript euroboxes.

 

It's proving to be surprisingly economical as well since replacing the failed vacuum advance and ensuring that it is all setup nicely, and has averaged 37mpg over the past four tanks of fuel - hopefully that'll go some way towards showing people just how economical a trusty old 1.9 8v on Jetronic management can be when it is properly setup! If it wasn't for the fact that it would be soul-destroying and completely against what these cars are all about, I'd deliberately drive it as frugally as possible over a tank to see just how much I could squeeze out of it.

 

 

Rolled over onto 150k miles earlier this evening, and by the end of the week will have racked up 2000 miles since I put it on the road. Reliability wise it has been very good, and aside from the leak from the thermostat housing and the odd minor teething issue, it hasn't missed a beat and (touch wood!) I don't see why that shouldn't continue now that everything has settled down - at least until I pull it apart again to fit the GTi-6 engine

 

 

Since I don't really have any half-decent pictures of the car since it's been on the road, I figured that it would be rude not to grab one when I was down at Ace Cafe at the start of the week

[welshpug 1,626]

Nice one Ant, I got 35 from my last tank and I wasn't trying to drive frugally at all

 

I think you're around the best I managed to get out of mine on Jetronic, it never ran that well but I have cracked the 400 mile to a tank on MP3.1

[Anthony 1,000]

The frugality of this 205 never ceases to amaze me - managed just under 41mpg from the last tank (366.8 miles to 40.75 litres = 40.9mpg)!

 

That's really none too shabby I think given that it's a 30+ year old engine design originally from the Peugeot 305, still running a distributor and with distinctly primative Jetronic fuel injection. That was still driving fairly normally too, commuting to work and back down the M4 keeping up with traffic, cold starts and some bumbling around in stop-start traffic.

 

The sunroof put me off a little about this car at first, but frankly it's been brilliant in the glorious weather that we've had over the past few weeks - just about managed to compensate for not having the Eunos (MX-5) here as I've still not retrieved it back from my friend who'd stored it for me over winter.

 

The 205 has also shown just how uninvolving and - dare I say it - dull the 306 GTi-6 that I picked up is by comparison. The '6 goes well enough, but comparitively, it feels heavy and inert. I was in two minds about whether to keep it or not as the friend that had owned it prior to me had maintained it very well and I knew that it was a fundamentally sound car, but using the 205 all this month has confirmed to me that it needs to go.

 

 

On the subject of GTi-6's, the silicon coolant hoses that I've been waiting for have finally arrived, so that completes the parts that I was hadn't yet recieved towards the tail end of last year and there's nothing stopping me from finally doing the conversion now... other than me being quite fond of it as it stands

 

Indeed, I'd be somewhat annoyed if the car was pinched now after all the work I've done, so I've finally pulled my finger out and bought a replacement for the old alarm/immobiliser that I removed when I first bought the car. For obvious reasons I'm not going to discuss details on what I've bought or fitment specifics on here, but needless to say it will be installed properly in a manner completely alien to so called "professionals" and whilst you'll never stop someone from taking it if they really want it, it should foil the opportunists.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

On the pulley's why not use the std Non A/C belt set up, makes it allot more adjustable

[Anthony 1,000]

On the pulley's why not use the std Non A/C belt set up, makes it allot more adjustable

I haven't really decided what to do yet, and haven't looked any more at it since September.

 

The original reasoning for that proposed belt setup was that other than the belt I already had all the bits to do it sat in the garage in good nick, and would thus save £100 odd that could be better spent elsewhere on the build. However, since then, I've managed to pick up half of the OE non A/C "Rallye" setup brand new for peanuts, just leaving me the idler pulley and belt to purchase, and hence I'm leaning towards the OE solution.

[MiniGibbo 142]

Good read this, you have some serious skills IMO..!

 

Laughed hard at the post about owning a 205 being a disease lol..

[Anthony 1,000]

skips (plural)

- a collection of Peugeot automobiles tuned by Skip Brown Cars

 

 

The Jalopy and my Roadspeed suspension shod 306 HDi have been joined temporarily by Andy's (McDude) 205 GTi-S, here to get its seized rear beam replaced. A frustrating situation because had the beam been overhauled when the car was upgraded a couple of years back including the uprated torsion and anti-roll bars, but for reasons I cannot comprehend, the beam was deemed to be in good order and put back together as was.

 

I've banged on about it on here enough, but even if the beam is in good condition, if it has not been rebuilt in the last few years, do it as a matter of course - at the very least, re-grease it and replace the seals. It really beggars belief that a leading Peugeot specialist doesn't do this, and as a result, would would have been £50 in parts a couple of years back has become many times that now that the shafts and beam tube need replacement as well.

 

Anyway, I digress. The reason for including this in this thread is because having replaced the beam, it gave me a good opportunity to do a comparison between a standard GTi-S and the additional changes that I've made on mine.

 

The single biggest difference that strikes you immediately is the steering. Andy's car has a standard non-PAS 3.9 turn steering rack, whereas my car has a Xsara VTS 2.4 turn steering rack with PAS assistance, and the difference on the road is night and day. Over used cliché it might be, but my car really does feel like a go-kart - the steering is quick and responsive, and just needs a flick of the wrist to turn the nose in, making the front end feel pointy and eager. Andy's car on the other hand feels like a bus by comparison, and despite having very similar suspension and the same balance, it feels so unresponsive and unwilling to turn in thanks to the slow-witted steering.

 

It's also shown that you don't lose too much in the way of feel and feedback with the PAS, and certainly this back to back comparison has confirmed to me that a quicker steering rack really is a must-fit to a 205, and that having PAS isn't a bad thing at all on a road going car.

 

On the subject of confirmations, the engine in Andy's has backed up what the dyno said about mine, namely that a few of its horses have bolted over the years. It's slightly difficult to compare as they're on different gearboxes, but the fact that Andy's feels like it accelerates not too dissimilarly despite the longer 1.9 final drive is pretty telling, and there's no doubt that it feels stronger at top end. Hmmm. Perhaps Andy's is an exceptional example, but seems to me that it's further evidence that mine isn't quite as it should be - more investigation needed.

 

Or just pulling my finger out and fitting the GTi-6 engine that's been sat in the garage for months now...

[Anthony 1,000]

Dodging the rain, I finally got around to sorting out a few jobs I've been meaning to do for a few weeks.

 

 

First was replacing the knackered pattern bushes with some new OE Peugeot ones on a newish pair of 309 wishbones, with an aim to replacing the old wishbones that I fitted when I put the car together. I'd only intended them to be temporary to allow the car to be rolled around and test driven, but 3000 miles later, they're still on there

 

I think that the bushes on them are starting to go as the car has started to become noticeably more sensitive to tramlining and road camber, so it was the kick up the backside that I needed to do what I really should have done when I put the car together.

 

Annoyingly I didn't have the correct sized hole saw to simply cut the rubber bushes out, and thus resorted to burning them out - more messy, but ultimately far more satisfying as with anything involving fire. The technique is fairly straight forward - apply heat for 30 seconds and tap out the first metal ring, and then apply another 30 seconds and knock out the next ring (if there is one) or peel away the rubber from the outer metal ring. Either cut through this with a hacksaw or bend it in on itself with a hammer and drift, and then knock it out. Repeat for the other bush and the other wishbone, clear up the holes with some sandpaper / emery and then press in the new bushes.

 

 

Sadly, the weather didn't co-operate sufficiently to allow me to fit them so that's next on the cards.

 

Next I set about fitting the replacement for the old alarm/immobiliser.

 

I won't go into too much detail on security for obvious reasons, but suffice to say that it's been properly fitted in accordance with the Thatcham criteria (something I've never seen a "professional" installation done to) and will be difficult for your average joyrider to bypass to be able to steal the car without spending a reasonable amount of time tearing the car to pieces or having sufficient knowledge of 205 wiring to know how to get around any installation.

 

Obviously if someone wants it enough then they'll take it regardless, so this is really just peace of mind for me and to hopefully deter any opportunists, and if they're not deterred and try and steal it, slow them down enough that they give up.

 

Last but not least, I turned my attentions to finally sorting out the dashboard and the broken/incomplete cowling.

 

I'd fitted it as a temporary measure for the MOT last year just to make the inside of the car presentable, and hadn't done anything with it since. 3000 miles of staring at the hole where the coin tray should be and the broken blank above it had finally irritated me sufficiently to sort it out.

 

Since I have never in the 9 years of owning 205's actually used the cointray, I decided that there wasn't much point refitting one and wondering at what point it was going to inevitably break. Instead, I set about fitting the large blanking piece that base models have (this one was from a late Mardi Gras in the scrapyard) into the GTi type cowling and ridding it of the troublesome coin tray forever.

 

 

An hour or so of modifying it with a dremel, et volia - all done and finally, no gaping hole in the dash!

 

(for the weight obsessed amongst you, doing this only saves about 60 grams and is thus completely pointless from that point of view)

[Alastairh 47]

Or just pulling my finger out and fitting the GTi-6 engine that's been sat in the garage for months now...

 

Mincing still...

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I like the base model dash triangle conversion very neat

[Anthony 1,000]

Only owners of old and/or French cars will understand how you go from a quick pre-MOT bulb check to this...

 

 

*sigh*

 

On the bright side, the rear panel and bumper mounts are in exceptionally good condition, with just a couple of tiny spots of light surface rust. Whilst the bumper is off I'll treat those, give the whole thing a fresh lick of paint followed by a couple of coats of Waxoyl underseal to protect it - particularly around the rear bumper mounts that are are notable rust hotspot on 205's and repair sections are no longer available.

 

Guess I probably should take the opportunity to Plasticare the bumper too seeing as it's meant to be black...

[Baz 421]

Only owners of old and/or French cars will understand how you go from a quick pre-MOT bulb check to this...

 

 

 

Nope, sorry you're clearly just mental. Or turning into a little bit of a cleaning OCD freak.

 

Am i missing something, why did the bumper have to come off?

[Baz 421]

Oh and yes, just to add; P6000's on the rear FTMFW.

[Anthony 1,000]

Faded much?

 

 

Applying Plasticare to the rear bumper this evening highlights just how faded the bumpers and trim have become.

 

I'm not actually using the standard black Plasticare as it comes in the bottle, but rather some that has around 5% or so grey mixed in with it. I did this as I found that it matched the colour of the original Phase 2 trim better from when I had done some of the interior plastics, as the original trim isn't actually pure black but rather a very dark grey.

[Anthony 1,000]

Last weekend was spent getting the outstanding jobs done on the Jalopy and readying it for its MOT tomorrow.

 

First up was getting the rear panel sorted and protected. I won't bore you with the finer details, but basically the process was:

 

• Cleaning up the few small spots of surface rust, sanding them back to clean metal
  
• Cleaning and degreasing the panel and bumper mounts, before applying a couple of coats of anti-rust treatment.
  
• A couple of coats of black paint over the top of that
  
• Finished up with a couple of coats of Waxoyl Underseal

 

 

Given that it appears to have faired well over the past 20 years, I'm hoping the above will keep it sound for a few more years to come, particularly the rust prone rear bumper mounts. Indeed, it's surprising in a way that the bumper mounts last as well as they do - it's thin metal anyway that isn't particularly well protected from the factory, and the whole area is constantly having water, mud and stones flicked up from the rear wheels. I might well make up some kind of crude splash guard / arch liner to help with that last issue, much like the later generation Peugeot's had.

 

 

Finishing off the work to the rear of the car was refinishing the rear light reflectors.

 

Paul_13 had complained that the rear lights on my car weren't particularly bright when he'd gone down to Ace Cafe a few weeks back, and pulling the lenses off revealed a big part of the problem - the reflectors had lost all their sheen and were looking a bit sorry for themselves.

 

Stripping the rear light assembly down to just the reflector part, they were cleaned up and degreased, lightly keyed, and given a couple of coats of Holts "Aluminium Chrome" paint to try to give a similar finish to OE. The finish ended up being not quite as shiny as I had been hoping for, but still a massive improvement compared to before. Finished up with a complete new set of bulbs for good measure given that they're so cheap on Halfords Trade.

 

 

Turning my attention to the front of the car, I started with the top engine mount.

 

I had meant to change this when I first built the car as it was looking pretty sorry for itself then, but didn't do so whilst I was removing and refitting the GTi-6 engine to test clearance, and then completely forgot about replacing it prior to fitting the 8v engine back in. The net result was an unacceptable (to me at least) amount of drive line shunt.

 

After removing the old mount, the reason became clear. Not only was it heavily perished as seen in the picture, but it had started to split in two and hence offered little resistance against the engine as it moved around when on and off the power, not helped by excessive clearance between the buffers and the engine mount casting.

 

Helpfully, the 306 GTi-6 that I recently broke had an 205 style engine mount that had only been fitted a few weeks previous and was hence as-new and perfect for what I wanted, as I didn't want to go down the route of Group N mounts and the resulting cabin vibration if I could help it. The new mount, together with an extra spacer on the buffers, made a massive difference - no longer could you rock the engine back and forth by hand, and when driving the shunting on and off the throttle was significantly reduced.

[Anthony 1,000]

Lastly I went to fit the 309 wishbones that I had pressed new OE Peugeot bushes into, and what should have been easy turned into a horrible messy job to my annoyance. Jacked the car up and removed one from wheel to find CV grease everywhere, only to remove the other wheel and find.... yep, a load more CV grease

 

Despite all being fine when I'd poked my head under the car 1000 miles or so back, somehow one CV boot had split and the other, whilst not split and still having its metal clip firmly attached, had spewed grease out of the end of the boot. On both sides, the hub, calipers, strut and entire inside of the wheel were plastered.

 

It wouldn't be quite so bad if it wasn't for the fact that both boots showed no perishing or issue when I fitted the driveshafts 3000 odd miles ago, and ironically, I had only fitted them as the newish driveshafts I had taken from my other 205 had notable perishing on the CV boots despite not being very old at all. Frankly, the quality of many rubber components now leave much to be desired, as that's not the first time by a long shot that I've seen rubber boots and gaitors fail in no time at all when the original OE parts typically lasted 10-15 years if not longer.

 

Thankfully I had a 3rd set of 309 driveshafts in the garage (I knew there was a reason I hoard so much!) so I fitted them onto the car, leaving me a couple of pairs now that I need to replace the boots on. I was going to replace the boots first and then fit the 'shafts with the new boots onto the car, but after pulling apart the first shaft and finding that it had a non-seperateable outer CV (1.6 style) I decided against that seeing as it going to be a pain to change the boot on.

 

 

The wishbone swap was straight forward enough, making sure to do the important step of not fully tightening the bolts until the wishbone is in the position it will normally sit with the car on its wheels - many people forget about this, and it leads to premature failure as the bush is constantly twisted. It's a bit of a pain to torque up the bolts with the car on the ground without a 4 post ramp (especially on a lowered cars) so I do it the other way and jack the wishbone up until the wheel is at the position it would sit at.

 

Wishbones and driveshafts replaced, gearbox oil refilled and the car back on the ground, I set about sorting the tracking out as it had changed a surprising amount - I hadn't checked it immediately before with the tracking gauges, but certainly with the new wishbones it was over a degree out (excess toe in) for some reason, backed up by the fact that the steering wheel now sat off-centre and the steering was light and lacking feel when I drove it around the block to settle the suspension.

 

Initially I set the tracking to approximately 5 minutes toe in, which made the steering extremely responsive and keen to turn in, but had the knock on effect of making the car feel nervous on the motorway and very sensitive to ruts, requiring constant minor corrections to keep it straight. Given that my run to work involves motorways and dual carriageways, I added a little more toe in, which improved its motorway manners no end at the cost of a little of the response and turn in on the twisty stuff.

 

Surprisingly how little extra toe was needed for a very noticeable change in on-road behaviour - just a quarter of a turn or so of the track rod, increasing the toe in to a little under 10 minutes. There's 60 minutes to a degree btw for those that aren't used to working in fractions of a degree.

 

Whilst under the car sorting the other bits and pieces, it was clear that I am going to have to do something about replacing or resealing the sump at some point in the near future if I don't put the GTi-6 lump in soon, as it's gone from producing a light film of oil on the sump when I first put the engine in, to leaving drips when parked up and now it is actively rust proofing the subframe and underside of the car British Layland style.... *sigh*

 

Hopefully the Jalopy will be given a clean bill of health and a fresh 12 months ticket tomorrow, fingers crossed