Starting Issues

[happygoron 2]

Intermittent clicking has become a bit of an issue. Always had to turn the key a few times, have replaced most of the wiring and cleaned the earths but it's still there. Seeing as it's pretty typical and never caused me any real problems Not been to bothered. Till yesterday.

 

Yesterday she wouldn't turn the starter at all. Bump started ok, restarted first time after that ok, wouldn't start again after that. Rigged up a wire from the starter solenoid to the battery positive, touching that would shunt the starter, turning the key after that would start the engine fine multiple times throughout the day WITHOUT the new wire being attached.

 

Leave it overnight.

 

This morning won't fire at all, starter won't even crank. Hit it a few times with an extenstion bar, she'll then crank with the extra wire, and fired once (again without the extra wire) but refuses to restart again now.

 

This all leans me towards thinking the starter is on it's way out or even gone, any suggestions before I try and obtain a new one?

[hexhamstu 9]

Replace the whole alternator to starter to shunt box wire?

Edited September 26, 2010 by hexhamstu

[welshpug 1,622]

check the voltage along the wire to the solenoid right from the ignition switch, it could be the switch if the wire is ok.

[large 33]

Juat park on a hill!

If it is still a problem next weekend we can have a look.

[happygoron 2]

Replace the whole alternator to starter to shunt box wire?

 

Done alternator to starter, not done to the shunt box but resistace is bugger all (0.3ohm) so don't think that's the issue.

 

WP: Can't see it being the switch as everything I've done that seems to have an effect has been to the starter itself?

 

Large: fairly flat road sadly!

 

Getting more and more convinced it's the starter. Will have another play tommrow and see.

[DirtyFlare 0]

I had a similar problem to this.

 

On turning the key the starter motor would do nothing or just click, but if i flicked the key on and off a couple of times it would turn the starter motor and start the car. Although, sometimes once it started the engine it would stick and nearly make it stall

 

I checked the voltage of the battery whilst the engine was on and off, both appeared ok.

 

I eventually changed the stater motor and all has been fine since (over 6 months now).

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Ryan_stdt had this for months, turned out to be a dodgy earth

[happygoron 2]

Update time:

 

Had the first chance to look at this today as I have had a manic week.

 

Current status: Turning the key does zilch, nothing, nadda. All I can hear is a faint short bzzz on the final position. All the wiring looks ok, have checked every earth. Hooing the solenoid to 12v straight from the battery does nothing either.

 

Battery is not perfect (12.2V dropping to 11.8 when I turn the key, then 11.5 when I try to spin her) but I would expect it to do something, so I'm concluding that the starter or solenoid is goosed. Does this sound like a fair assessment?

 

If so I'll have to get a replacement, GSF has them for £45, anyone know if they are any good? I've heard mention of different starter bodies from later cars or something, what's the crack with that?

 

Finally is it possible to change the starter without removing the inlet manifold? It's obviously tight but I have thin long arms!

[hexhamstu 9]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=123622

 

306 starter motors are smaller and lighter. I think diesel ones are more powerful as well? Any XU engined cars starter motor will fit.

[hexhamstu 9]

(from a different thread)

 

 

Oh, and the other point of note is that the original bulky starter motors are much more prone to clicking than the later slimline Valeo starters found on various late 90's Peugeot and Citroen models.

[happygoron 2]

Had seen that thread. Looks a right ball ache!

 

Will shop around online for a valeo jobbie

[DirtyFlare 0]

Finally is it possible to change the starter without removing the inlet manifold? It's obviously tight but I have thin long arms!

 

Yes, mine had the origional starter motor on it until I changed it a couple of months ago. Its a tad awkward but if you've got some rachet spanners you will manage it without taking the manifold off.

[hexhamstu 9]

I've got a set of hinged ratchet spanners if you need to borrow them.

[Alastairh 47]

Easy to, I removed the bottom oil filler hose at the weekend and dropped a huge diesel one in the bin. A good xu10 starter and freshened up battery contacts and it spot on.

 

Al

[happygoron 2]

Might take you up on that stu, I've got normal ratchet spannes in 8, 10, 12, 13, 17 and 19mm but I bet none of them are right! Anyone know what sizes I need? I know they should all have an 8mm allen key head too.

 

Rang gsf and they have a valeo one in stock so I'll exchange mine for that. 45 for a recon isn't breaking the bank too much.

[happygoron 2]

Got it off without too much bother, helped by the fact only 2 bolts were holding it on . Just removed all the intake piping and access wasn't too bad.

 

Gonna change the wiring to the ignition barrel too, anyone know what min thickness wire I'll need for that?

[hexhamstu 9]

Got it off without too much bother, helped by the fact only 2 bolts were holding it on . Just removed all the intake piping and access wasn't too bad.

 

Gonna change the wiring to the ignition barrel too, anyone know what min thickness wire I'll need for that?

 

2 bolts is fine!

[happygoron 2]

Right, swapped over with no real issue, all I removed was the air intake pipes and battery. Was a small bodied one. For reference the exchange one from GSF cost £70odd.

 

New starter works great, makes a hell of a racket when it's spinning but sounds fast!

 

However, clicking starter is back, with a vengance.

 

My battery connections are a little worse for wear, sleaved the positive with copper so it clamps well again. All earths have been cleaned.

 

Next plan, change the wire that Mei mentioned from the starter to the brown multiplig by the pedals. Was hoping the starter would cure it as it looks a right pain in the arse to open up the loom! Will piggyback the existing wire rather than remove it but still doesn't look fun.

 

Also the battery is showing it's age so will get a new one if the replacement wire has no effect.

 

Any further advice?

[happygoron 2]

You couldn't make this up. The thing is taunting me!

 

Realised earlier in the week that often if it was clicking I could disconnect then reconnect the brown multiplug by the clutch that the starter circuit runs though and she'd more often than not fire next go. So safe to assume loose connection there. Spent half an hour swearing with my head by the pedals removing those wires from the plug, crimping spade connectors on then tiding it all up. First turn and boom fires nicely. Feeling smug I hear my phone ringing with my old man offering his car for my short break down cornwall I'm taking tommrow. I say thanks but it looks like I've fixed it. Go to start it again and whadda you know - click, click, click. I swore.

 

She spend the rest of the week doing it. I drove her a fair bit to test if she'd ever fail to start and to be fair she hasn't. She's no getaway car, often takes quite a few turns but always fires eventually.

 

Had a few hours today so thought I'd try another possibility - duff battery. Nick my sisters out of her saxo and pop it in, boom. Fires first time. Tried again, boom. One more for luck after a short wait. Boom. Fires lovely. So off I trot to halfords, purchase one of their mid range jobbies (thank god for a trade card) and swap it in the car park (£4.99 for fitting? No thank you!). Test it, boom. Fires lovely. Off I cruise back to my parents house feeling smug (deja vu?). Get there, pop my sisters battery back in, tidy away all the tools and decide to head home for a kit kat as a reward for a good days work.

 

Click.

 

Click.

 

Click.

 

C**T!

 

I swore a lot. Bloody thing was teasing me all along.

 

Now I know it's possible I bought a duff battery but unlikely. However the more pressing matter is if I take the car to cornwall tommrow? I trust it to start just fine, it has done all week. However is it fair on the missus when I can nich my old mans car?!

 

Only thing left to try is replacing the whole wire starter to ignition. Out of ideas then.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I had this.....on the Mi.

 

Checked the starter, then made sure the battery/starter/alternator harness was good. Connections etc were good as I had recently built a new harness due to moving the battery inside the car.

 

Checked the solenoid wire from under the dash and thats where I was losing volts. So either the wire or the ignition switch. Chopped out the solenoid wire, replaced with a slightly bigger csa wire and hey presto, the clicky starter was gone. Incidentally, the new wire went straight to the solenoid. No multiplugs/crimped connections, a direct feed.

 

If it's the switch, I think they are still available new. You'd be chancing it with a 2nd hand one. I've kept one off a 206 I recently broke for this reason.

[CaptainK 11]

Thats bad luck mate.

 

Could you not put your new battery in your sisters car and keep her battery for a while to see what happens then ?

[happygoron 2]

I assume you changed the wire all the way from the ignition switch? Bought some wire the other day but I think it's too thin so will get some more on the weekend and do that.

 

Did think about nicking my sisters battery but I think it would cause riots!

 

Made it to cornwall and back ok though, had a few funny looks in car parks as I sat there clicking away and almost had a few domestics when the missus decided she needed a pee, didn't wanna stop the car in the services!

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I assume you changed the wire all the way from the ignition switch? Bought some wire the other day but I think it's too thin so will get some more on the weekend and do that.

 

I can't remember whether I chopped it before or after the brown multiplug under the steering wheel. Wherever I chopped it, it's certainly worked. Just remember to use decent gauge wire. I just chopped a length from an old loom which happened to be thicker. Take it straight to the solenoid.

[Oberon 0]

I feel your pain, been having similar issues. Cleaning all earths and replacing some earth leads worked for a while then it came

 

back. New battery yesterday and still I had to start her with a piece of wire! Today I tightened up the terminals and earth

 

points really really tight and all is well again, For now.

 

 

That clicking is very embarrassing, but if you really wanna get shamed up in public try starting your car with a piece of wire

 

whilst forgetting the car is in gear ! I did it in the middlle of town more or less.

 

2 X bruised knees, 1 X seriously bruised ego.

 

 

 

Make sure your earth points have got those funny crinkled washers and everything is real tight (just before the point of breaking something)

[happygoron 2]

That clicking is very embarrassing, but if you really wanna get shamed up in public try starting your car with a piece of wire

 

whilst forgetting the car is in gear ! I did it in the middlle of town more or less.

 

2 X bruised knees, 1 X seriously bruised ego.

 

 

 

Make sure your earth points have got those funny crinkled washers and everything is real tight (just before the point of breaking something)

 

I think this post may have been an omen.

 

Firstly. Almost ran over my old man earler testing the new wiring by leaving it in gear.

 

However it did show that it appears the wiring works! Whoopee!

 

BUT... managed to break the negative battery terminal connector, it's one of those wanky screw down ones and I overtightened it and knackered the thread. Bollocks.

 

Plus new ones are 7.99 on ebay! Daylight robbery!

Edited October 31, 2010 by happygoron