Xs Disaster...

[S@m 156]

Nice job! I have been looking for an excuse to change the engine in a friend of mines (heavily smoking) XS, and you have provided some much needed inspiration here! Looks quality! One thing i wanted to ask though is; does the electrical speedo drive on the 106 provide a signal to the ECU as well as the speedo? Like a VSS sensor on a gti-6 or a 8v turbo. If so, will the engine run right with it removed? Although judging by it "pulling like a train", seems like its running pretty well!

 

Sam

[miamichris 9]

Nice job! I have been looking for an excuse to change the engine in a friend of mines (heavily smoking) XS, and you have provided some much needed inspiration here! Looks quality! One thing i wanted to ask though is; does the electrical speedo drive on the 106 provide a signal to the ECU as well as the speedo? Like a VSS sensor on a gti-6 or a 8v turbo. If so, will the engine run right with it removed? Although judging by it "pulling like a train", seems like its running pretty well!

 

Sam

 

Hi Sam, I'm not sure if the speedo drive provides a signal to the ecu to be honest, although I'm going to have to investigate this further because when I had it out last night my speedo wasn't working, but it certainly seemed to be running well enough

 

I've just left the speedo sensor unconnected and swapped the speedo drive but I may need to see whether I can use a dual sensor with both the speedo cable and electrical speedo connections like they use in the gti-6 conversions. Although, i'm not sure if any tu engined cars actually use one of these!

[S@m 156]

I've just left the speedo sensor unconnected and swapped the speedo drive but I may need to see whether I can use a dual sensor with both the speedo cable and electrical speedo connections like they use in the gti-6 conversions. Although, i'm not sure if any tu engined cars actually use one of these!

 

It appears that early 106's had a speedo drive with cable and electrical plug, from what i can gather on servicebox anyways. Try searching for part number 6160.24 or more likely 6160.70 depending on how many pins the connector has. The (notoriously unreliable) picture shows it having cable and plug anyways, Plus its not only listed as speedo drive, its also listed in the "INJECTION CALCULATOR SENSOR" section which means it does communicate with the ECU.

 

Sam

 

EDIT - I have also noticed that i dont think it has to be a speedo drive from a TU, as many of the Peugeot/Citroen speedo drives are listed for both XU and TU engines with the same part number. The part i have mentioned above for example is listed for TU 1.4 and 1.6 106's but it also used in 1.8 and 2.0 XU 406's (amongst many others).

Edited August 13, 2010 by Sam306

[S@m 156]

Try searching for part number 6160.24 or more likely 6160.70 depending on how many pins the connector has. The

 

 

Scratch the idea of 6160.70. I am at work, i have one in my hand, and its only a 3 pin plug with no cable drive. Sadly i dont have one of the 6160.24's to check. Yet another case of inaccurate servicebox!

 

Sam

[joe1joe 3]

looks good mate, nice to see another one...

 

vss are the same on both xu and tu engines, and the plug does go to the ecu.....

 

i have mine pluged in, also you can run the diagnostics lead into the car like i have aswell to help you if there are ever any problems......

[joe1joe 3]

and another thing some people have mentioned that the diff pin is bigger on the gti box, meaning the drive shafts will hit the pin.

 

i would just ensure that the shafts sit on the face of the joint in the gearbox and not the end of the shaft on the diff pin

 

which is why i used the xs diff.

[miamichris 9]

It appears that early 106's had a speedo drive with cable and electrical plug, from what i can gather on servicebox anyways. Try searching for part number 6160.24 or more likely 6160.70 depending on how many pins the connector has. The (notoriously unreliable) picture shows it having cable and plug anyways, Plus its not only listed as speedo drive, its also listed in the "INJECTION CALCULATOR SENSOR" section which means it does communicate with the ECU.

 

Sam

 

EDIT - I have also noticed that i dont think it has to be a speedo drive from a TU, as many of the Peugeot/Citroen speedo drives are listed for both XU and TU engines with the same part number. The part i have mentioned above for example is listed for TU 1.4 and 1.6 106's but it also used in 1.8 and 2.0 XU 406's (amongst many others).

 

Some good research there Sam! I'd say I'll change the speedo drive to one of those dual ones just to be on the safe side.

 

looks good mate, nice to see another one...

 

vss are the same on both xu and tu engines, and the plug does go to the ecu.....

 

i have mine pluged in, also you can run the diagnostics lead into the car like i have aswell to help you if there are ever any problems......

 

Looks like I'll be making a trip to the scrapyard on monday then to try and pick one of those speedo drives off a 406 or something then. What effect does it have not having the speedo connector plugged in, as the car seems to be going fine without it?

 

and another thing some people have mentioned that the diff pin is bigger on the gti box, meaning the drive shafts will hit the pin.

 

i would just ensure that the shafts sit on the face of the joint in the gearbox and not the end of the shaft on the diff pin

 

which is why i used the xs diff.

 

Never heard that about the diff pin before, although I didn't really read up about the gearbox, just put it in I'll have to investigate that before I put it on the road, hopefully I don't have to change the diff as thats a gearbox off job I assume!

 

Having a few problems with bleeding the cooling system at the minute, so hopefully get that sorted out tomorrow! But basically, apart from those couple of issues mentioned above, its ready for the road again as I finished putting it back together today

[joe1joe 3]

well from what i am aware you need to ensure the drive shafts seals are actualy sealing with you box (as if the shaft was too long and hit the pin it would not seal) i think this is where some people just put new seals in and not tap them all the way in. and this does work but is not idea, have a look under the car!

 

come back and let me know as im curious as i just used my xs diff to be on the safe side and never used the later diff!

[miamichris 9]

well from what i am aware you need to ensure the drive shafts seals are actualy sealing with you box (as if the shaft was too long and hit the pin it would not seal) i think this is where some people just put new seals in and not tap them all the way in. and this does work but is not idea, have a look under the car!

 

come back and let me know as im curious as i just used my xs diff to be on the safe side and never used the later diff!

 

Had a look at the shafts today, no gearbox oil leaking so they must be sealing alright but I did put new diff seals in when I was changing the gearbox oil. I'll maybe pull one of the shafts out and look into the diff to see if the other shaft is hitting the diff pin and vise versa.

 

I think what I'll do is run with it as it is at the minute to see if there are any bad noises etc. and try to pick up a set of 106 gti shafts and swap the inner parts of the shafts onto my 205 ones, as I think that would sort the problem if it exists. It was suggested to me to cut a bit off the end of the 205 shafts if they are hitting the pin but I don't really want to do that!

 

EDIT: Joe, what did you do about the top radiator hose as neither the 106 or 205 hoses fit? I'm keeping the 106 heat exchanger so what I've done is cut the 106 and 205 water hoses and joint them together by sleeving the 106 hose with a short piece of 28mm copper pipe to give the jubilee clip something to clamp to. This hasn't worked as its letting air into the cooling system, so i'm going to head to the scrapyard tomorrow to see if I can find something suitable or else make it out of copper and parts of the 205 and 106 hoses I think.

Edited August 15, 2010 by miamichris

[supersub14 1]

hows she going now chris??

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Chris if you do a drawing of the hose adaptor needed I can make you something in alloy, let me know.

[joe1joe 3]

i cant remeber if i used just the 106 hose or the 106 hose and 205 hose.

 

but what i did was use a peice of copper as a joiner, but splayed the ends slightly to make a seal. if you know what i mean!

 

i didnt bother with the heat excanger, and you can get the bits from pug to do away with it. makes things a bit neater aswell.

[miamichris 9]

hows she going now chris??

Haven't even road tested the thing properly! Been flat out working every night at private joinery jobs since I finished fitting the engine to gather up a few quid.

 

Though I have been sorting out a few niggly problems on the 205, have mintex 1144's from Miles sitting here to fit and bed in, as the brakes felt quite crap now that the cars so quick And I got new driving lights from him after I broke one towing it home when I blew the engine! So they're fitted and look good, thanks Miles.

 

Also bought some induction pipework from ebay and made my own using a brand new 205 k&n filter I had "in stock", it turned out pretty well I think! Cost me about 30 quid to make in the end, better than £100 for a ready made kit I suppose.

 

 

The coolant was getting quite hot and I figured out the radiator fan slow speed wasn't working so traced that back to the resistor pack, just collected a new one from peugeot today and it works now!

 

Chris if you do a drawing of the hose adaptor needed I can make you something in alloy, let me know.

 

I'm not sure how you could make an adaptor for it Tom? I'll put up some pics so you can see it.

 

I ended up getting the stepdad to solder up some copper fittings to make this "frankenpipe" and it seems to work, would be simpler without the exchanger as the pipes for it seem to be kinking a bit.

 

 

i cant remeber if i used just the 106 hose or the 106 hose and 205 hose.

 

but what i did was use a peice of copper as a joiner, but splayed the ends slightly to make a seal. if you know what i mean!

 

i didnt bother with the heat excanger, and you can get the bits from pug to do away with it. makes things a bit neater aswell.

 

Think i'm going to remove the heat exchanger too Joe, its a pain in the arse, might just replace it with some of that flexible silicone hose of the right diameter.

[miamichris 9]

Got a few road miles on it yesterday, nice little engine, can cruise along nicely then when you need it just drop a gear and its off like a rocket

 

Lovely note off the induction kit and standard Xs exhaust too, quite raspy when you put the foot down, sounds great

 

They were very paranoid road miles though, watching the gauges and listening for noises Normal running temperature seems to be about halfway up the gauge whereas it was about a quarter with the Xs engine in.

 

Got the mintex 1144's fitted and bedded in yesterday too, much better brakes now, although the car shakes a bit when I brake hard, but that happened before all this work, so I need to sort that out. It must be either warped discs or the wheels out of balance, needs a couple of new tyres on it so I'll get them all balanced when I get the tyres fitted, trying to find somewhere that has the machine to balance 1.6 gti wheels is a pain in the arse though!

 

Just for the record, I got one of those dual speedo drives a while back from a forum member on here, fitted it and connected up that VSS sensor and it did make a difference, the idle was much smoother afterwards so for anyone doing this conversion, you need to get one of those speedo drives.

Edited August 29, 2010 by miamichris

[supersub14 1]

Shes coming along nicely lad! Wish i had the time to do summit like this but you know how time-consuming it is trying to keep a bloody twincam on the road

 

Id say that its def your discs that are fubar-ed. And i wouldn't of thought itd of been an issue getting wheels balanced? Them coyboys up in b'clare still using crowbars and a bit o box section to remove tyres lol

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

I'm not sure how you could make an adaptor for it Tom? I'll put up some pics so you can see it.

 

If you do me a drawing of sizes, lengths, bends, etc, I will tell you if I can make it.

[miamichris 9]

Shes coming along nicely lad! Wish i had the time to do summit like this but you know how time-consuming it is trying to keep a bloody twincam on the road

 

Id say that its def your discs that are fubar-ed. And i wouldn't of thought itd of been an issue getting wheels balanced? Them coyboys up in b'clare still using crowbars and a bit o box section to remove tyres lol

 

The 1.6 gti wheels have a solid centre John, so you have to have a special adaptor for the wheel balancing machine so that it bolts on using the wheel bolt holes, if you know what I mean. But hardly anywhere has the adaptor thing to be able to balance the wheels!

 

On the up side, I went and picked up a set of 205 rallye steel wheels tonight for the bargain price of £40! So thats another few miles on the clock, with no bother yet *fingers crossed*. Tyres on them are fubared though. So going to get the tyres took off tomorrow, they're a bit rusty so i'm going to leave them in to get sand blasted then I'll paint them white again, new tyres and they'll be as good as new!

 

Yeah, keeping a twincam on the road seems to be about as hard as keeping a 205 on the road!

[miamichris 9]

Driveshaft seal decided to let all my gearbox oil out earlier today so had to bring the 205 home on the flatbed trailer from work, b*****d!!

 

Think this is the thicker diff pin in the 106 gti diff problem mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm going to do some measuring to see if I can cut the ends of the driveshafts down vey slightly to give me the clearance I need for the shaft to seal. Can anyone see any problem with that? If so, I will swap the Xs diff into the gti gearbox, just looking for an easier way out.

 

Can't understand this one as I had almost 150 miles on it with no problems from the shafts, so thought were sealed ok!

Edited August 31, 2010 by miamichris

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

Did you put brand new oil seals in at the time of fitting it 150 miles ago Chris? I know at work, on peugeots we always try to replace them when even doing a clutch kit on modern cars, just to be on the safe side. Might be something to do with the diff pin as well, but I have definately seen seals go like that in a short time. Could just be the way the shaft came out/went in or something.

[gtmotorsport 0]

I know slightly different, but I have a Gripper diff in my XS box and the short N/S shaft doesn't go into the box enough. When I say enough, I mean that the stepped section that runs in the seal is no where near. To over come this on a temp. basis I have just made sure the seal isn't in fully (fitted about half depth). My plan is to turn a new seal holder that I will fit to the original to space the seal out by the required amount.

[miamichris 9]

Did you put brand new oil seals in at the time of fitting it 150 miles ago Chris? I know at work, on peugeots we always try to replace them when even doing a clutch kit on modern cars, just to be on the safe side. Might be something to do with the diff pin as well, but I have definately seen seals go like that in a short time. Could just be the way the shaft came out/went in or something.

 

Yeah, new seals from your fine peugeot establishment when I fitted the engine and gearbox! i'm a bit like yourself and thought it was better to change them at the time. I'm thinking now its the seal myself, thought maybe the speedo drive was leaking but as you say, it could be anything caused it to fail, even a bit of dirt on the seal or i've maybe put the new seal in too far?

 

2 litres of brand new total bv all over the ground too!

 

I know slightly different, but I have a Gripper diff in my XS box and the short N/S shaft doesn't go into the box enough. When I say enough, I mean that the stepped section that runs in the seal is no where near. To over come this on a temp. basis I have just made sure the seal isn't in fully (fitted about half depth). My plan is to turn a new seal holder that I will fit to the original to space the seal out by the required amount.

 

Went out last night and pulled the shafts out to have a look, did lots of measuring of how far the shafts go in to the diff on both my old Xs box and the 106 gti one. The shaft seal that leaked was the driver's side, but from what i've read it's only the short shaft on the passenger side that gives any bother due to the thicker diff pin (for reference i've found that the diff pin is only 2mm thicker!)

 

Now, after a few measurements on the driver's side I've found that the shaft goes into both the 106 and Xs diff the same amount, around 89mm. But on the passenger side the shaft only goes 74mm into the 106 diff and 76mm into the Xs diff, so there's your 2mm thicker diff pin. I have no problems as of yet with the passenger side and checked the end of the shaft for signs of rubbing/wear but didn't see any, I can't see why you can't grind 2mm off the end of the shaft if you were having problems though?

 

So all that sort of rules out the diff pin being a problem on the driver's side, so I think i'll just get a new seal from peugeot but not fit it in as far as I did last time, clean the shaft down, new oil and hopefully that should sort it!

 

EDIT: Pretty busy with work this weekend so probably won't get a chance to get near this, but will let you's know how I get on once I get it done.

Edited September 1, 2010 by miamichris

[miamichris 9]

Finally got a few hours at this tonight, changed the driveshaft seal, refitted the shafts etc, filled it up with gearbox oil and it pissed out from the bottom of the bellhousing as quick as I was putting it in! So obviously it wasn't the seal at fault

 

The next thing I thought of was the output shaft seal so I pulled the gearbox off and a small allen headed, mashed up bolt dropped out. Turns out its a clutch bolt that must have vibrated loose and its smashed a hole through the bellhousing and into the diff casing, what are the bloody chances of that happening 2 days after I finish the conversion!!???

 

I was thinking of taking the bell housing from my Xs box and bolting it on to the 106 gti box, only thing i'm worried about is the casing not having the cut out for the crank angle sensor, I'll have a look at it over the weekend and hopefully get it sorted without spending any money!

[danpug 1]

Oops! Sounds like you are happy with the new engine anyway, it's amazing how quick those 16v's are for so little power.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Bugger bad news. I have known gearbox casings repaired successfully with such as Belzona epoxy "metal" stuff- the casing has breathers so is not under any pressure. Just make sure you get it spotlessly clean and oil free first.

 

As for the clutch bolt getting out- always loctite them in- I'm sure you will from now on anyway!

[miamichris 9]

Bugger bad news. I have known gearbox casings repaired successfully with such as Belzona epoxy "metal" stuff- the casing has breathers so is not under any pressure. Just make sure you get it spotlessly clean and oil free first.

 

As for the clutch bolt getting out- always loctite them in- I'm sure you will from now on anyway!

 

Was wondering whether I could repair it with chemical metal stuff, I'll either do that or have it welded by a specialist welder my brother knows and just keep the 106 gti gearbox as a spare for when I blow the Xs one up. I have a feeling it would be wise to gather up a few spare gearboxes for this car...

 

Regards the clutch bolt, it turns out that the head actually sheared off it for some reason and did the damage. Had to take the flywheel off to get the remains out with molegrips Funny thing is, I never split the engine and gearbox, just removed the whole lot and fitted it as one unit, so it has nothing to with me! Only thing I can think is that the clutch is quite new looking so possibly when someone changed it they overtightened the bolts. Needless to say I will be torquing and loctiting them when I put the clutch back on!

 

BTW, don't try to order these clutch bolts from peugeot, they wanted £6.48 each or something!

 

I'm proceeding with fitting the Xs gearbox, bell housing doesn't have the full cutout for the crank angle sensor so I "modified" it with a grinder and files and now it does! Fork bushes were worn on the Xs clutch fork so i'm changing these while I can, should be picking them up from peugeot tomorrow and I can get it put back together. I'll put a few photos of the damage etc. up when i get a chance.

 

Oh, and a set of new Falkens are on their way here from Pugtorque (cheers Graham) so I can get the freshly painted rallye steels fitted!